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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Was the Department aware of the issue before that parliamentary question was tabled?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: That is okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Perfect. That is no problem. Following on from what Ms McNally said, what percentage of Tusla inspections took place in each of the categories of facility as we have broken them down?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: It is reactionary.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Of course. Tusla does not have the figure I requested, but I hope it will have a figure as to how many repeat inspections have taken place in respect of full-day services. One inspection is an operational inspection and a second inspection is a repeat inspection, about which information has still not been put into the public domain. There may then be a third inspection. How many providers...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: How many have been inspected more than three times in the last year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: I am talking about full-day childcare providers.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: That is crucial information to these proceedings and Tusla does not have it. That is unforgivable.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Absolutely.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: I will follow on from that by asking about the regulations and about the powers that Tusla possesses. As we are all aware, the Act was amended in 2016. This is why I want to know when communication took place between the Department and Tusla. As Ms McNally quite rightly stated, we came from a very low base so any amendments were very welcome at that point. I am trying to understand - the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Tusla can prosecute an unregistered facility.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Why did it not prosecute this service between 31 January 2018 and March 2019? Why did it take 15 months?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: Can Tusla not go straight to the High Court? Can it not seek an injunction to close a service immediately?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: That is not within Tusla's powers.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: The Act refers to a period of 21 days. To be fair to parents who are enrolling children, I did not realise until I had read through the Act that Tusla does not have such powers. Tusla does not have the power to close down an unregistered service. At the same time, it does have powers to work with unregistered facilities. It is in this context that we are trying to understand the position...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: In this particular instance, the service was a single entity but it was also part of a chain. The core person responsible for the two other crèches had registered both of them. We talked about the need for evidence. The evidence was that, on 25 September 2017, there were no cots available for nine children under two years of age at one of the other sites. The inspection also revealed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: What does Tusla consider to be a red flag? I refer to a service not having an adequate insurance certificate due to an insufficient number of children being covered or a service not having suitable sleeping facilities for children. What comprises a red flag such that a 21-day notice would be issued?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: I do not mean to interrupt Mr. Lee, but has Tusla deregistered a service in a situation in which it cannot produce an inspection report or communicate with the parents and where parents are still sending their children into a service blind and not knowing what is going on behind the scenes? I acknowledge that Ms McDonnell already addressed many of my questions in terms of her communication...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: I ask the Tusla delegates to identify the red flags. I apologise for pressing the point. I ask because the "RTÉ Investigates" programme highlighted red flags such as a failure to adhere to the ratio of 1:3 in a baby room and 1:5 in a wobbler room, as well as insurance and fire safety issues. What parents listening to these proceedings wish to hear is that there is a red flag such that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Issues Regarding Childcare Facilities: Discussion (31 Jul 2019)

Anne Rabbitte: What about the regulations on matters such as the adult-child ratio which must be adhered to?

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