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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Mr. McCarthy mentioned his role in auditing the health service. Would it be common for his office to engage experts in assessing difficult decisions within the health service which are made or on which it adjudicates?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Would Mr. McCarthy accept that auditors are experts in accounting and audit and that it is quite common throughout the audit industry to use experts in areas like valuation of land and property and assessment of loan impairment values? It is a question of being sure the process they are undertaking is correct. Mr. McCarthy has made it reasonably clear in his report that there is a...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: I have another question about the relationship between the discount rate used in the report and the composition of assets. We are saying that a discount rate of 5.5%, which largely covers property in rural Northern Ireland and regional Britain, is equivalent to the rate that should be used to discount high-end property, shopping centres and property in central London. Does Mr. McCarthy not...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Nevertheless, business risk is obviously going to be a component in valuing a discount rate. The cost of funds to a company is a key aspect-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: In light of the business risk that is inherently present in the composition of the assets, and given the role of the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General in assessing these matters, does Mr. McCarthy not think it would have been prudent to tender for expertise? I know he has said he is looking for additional resources to assist his office in preparing a section 226 report.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: In light of the very specific nature of this analysis - it takes great expertise to assess a discount rate for a particular portfolio - does Mr. McCarthy agree that, in retrospect, it was a mistake not to engage an expert in this field?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Does Mr. McCarthy believe his office had adequate time, on foot of the new information, to adjudicate on the new rate?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Is Mr. McCarthy happy with the process he undertook in advance of making a clear statement that there has probably been a loss of £190 million? Given that this is such a complex area, it is a very significant figure for him to hang his hat on.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Does the Comptroller and Auditor General accept that it is reasonable to have a debate on the 5.5% discount rate being overambitious? We have examined the composition of the rate and listened to the commentary on it. Other highly reputable experts in the field were involved. This is obviously a very difficult area to assess. As Mr. McCarthy set out, the methodology applied to cashflows...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: I wish to focus on the Comptroller and Auditor General's previous audits of NAMA because this is a very important issue. Mr. McCarthy can confirm that he is a permanent member of NAMA's audit committee. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Do they attend every single audit committee meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Will Mr. McCarthy provide more detail? NAMA is a large State institution charged with delivering large numbers of loans from the banks and trying to make a profit for the taxpayer. How many meetings does his staff attend each year?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Have staff from the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General not been invited to all meetings?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: How many meetings take place every year?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Therefore, there are meetings that they do not attend. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: Yes, I will address one more very important point. Paragraph 2.4 of the report shows the carrying value of the assets held in Project Eagle at 31 December 2013. It indicates a loss of 13% on the sale proceeds. Paragraph 2.4 also shows that in some cases there was a difference of in excess of 30% in the case of participating institutions which were managing the loans. In terms of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: I know that concern was raised by Mr. McCarthy's office. That is the point I am trying to make. The loss has obviously been booked and raised, but in terms of the process and procedures and the significance of it, there was no concern raised about it by the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: And potentially additional expertise.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: I thank the witnesses for appearing before the committee. I will first focus on the change in strategy to group all of the assets. Obviously, it was the biggest loan portfolio sale NAMA had undertaken at that point and it was a huge change in strategy to group all of the assets. I note from the Comptroller and Auditor General's report that there is no detail of the other options discussed...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Peter Burke: The Comptroller and Auditor General is very clear that there is no evaluation of other options in the board minutes.

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