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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, to set it up but the monitoring of cost is what Deputy Cullinane is asking about.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Fraser is the Accounting Officer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform must have some idea of how the costs are going. If it has no idea, this is a bigger issue because it would mean there is a blank cheque. What information does the Department have? Someone must have some idea. If the position is that no one has any idea what the cost of the commission of investigation will be, then the commission should be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Which Departments now have a commission under their remit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: That would be very helpful. There is a method of collecting data on how many days are logged by the different legal representatives.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, please refine it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does that cover all tribunals that have been in existence for the last 12 years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: It will be very helpful.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: We would be worried if there was no mechanism in place. I understand that the Department cannot estimate the third party costs until some of the figures come in, but there are daily rates and legal costs. In advance of this afternoon's session, will the witness indicate who sets the daily rate or who agrees the hourly rate on behalf of the State? Is the Department involved in that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Given that we have an afternoon session with the three legal offices, will the witnesses indicate who sets the rates? Is it the Office of the Attorney General, the Office of the Chief State Solicitor or the State Claims Agency? Who clears or signs off on the rates?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Did the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform approve those rates?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Was it Mr. O'Malley's Department that approved those rates?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Department has offered to provide very helpful, useful and informative information which all members are looking for. We will give it time to prepare that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Malley might also give us the provisional estimate for each of the Departments for 2019. The Department obviously had the figures, even if they may not have been approved. I am asking for the most up-to-date figures. I accept the 2019 figure will be an estimate. At this stage, we can park this issue and consider it again when we receive that information.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. Fraser have those numbers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: In writing.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am going to ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to help as we are on unusual ground. The payment of €318,000 is paid from the Central Fund and the person responsible for the Central Fund is the Secretary General of the Department of Finance. Am I correct so far?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: The payment out is under the functions of the Secretary General of the Department of Finance and not of Mr. Fraser. The Department of Finance will be here in a couple of weeks and is on notice that we will ask about this payment being made from the Central Fund, as other payments from the Central Fund get made. We can ask that Secretary General whether there is a mechanism for accounting...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach
(7 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are not asking Mr. Fraser to answer.

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