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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Perfect. All hospitals do important work but some are better than others, as Mr. Gloster would attest to. Waterford hospital has been mentioned in that regard. Is there a matrix, if you like, between the number of patients seen and the cost of running the hospital? Can hospital budgets and outputs be measured in order that they can be ranked?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Mr. Watt, in his opening statement, stated “Focusing on the past three years, we have added an additional 22,000 healthcare staff...” He mentioned 6,700 nurses, 3,100 social care professionals and 2,500 doctors and dentists. There were 9,700 other staff. What is the breakdown of those? There is security and cleaning staff, for example. Do we have a breakdown of those?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Referring to his opening statement again, Mr. Watt stated about 42% of the expenditure is on pay, so that is about €9.45 billion. Some €3.2 billion will be spent on pharma by the end of the year. Those figures account for about €12 billion of the €22 billion. Is there a breakdown of the remainder, for example, for pensions, perhaps under large heads?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: It has been said, and the witnesses can dispute this or not, that part of the problem is that if the HSE gets an allocation for 200 particular posts and cannot fill those posts, it still spends the money on other staff. Is that the case? Does that happen or does the HSE go back to the Department for approval?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: What does that mean in and of itself?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Does that mean retention is getting better?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Yes, I understand not getting down to that level of specifics but if the service has funding for 500 nurses and can only get 300, surely that money can be used for other staffing costs. I am trying to understand whether approval is sought or given in those circumstances or is it all kept within the HSE?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Is that something Mr. Watt agrees with?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Is there an actual strategy? Is there a physical document? The witnesses have used the term "pay and numbers strategy". Can we get a copy of that? Is it available?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: On the first page of his submission, Mr. Watt refers to a 40% increase in WTEs, from 91,559 to 122,273. Were some of those moratorium posts from the last time? Was there a carry-over of staff who should have been in place in the period up to 2016?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Had the moratorium been fully lifted at that stage?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Perfect. An additional 178,000 patients have been treated to date this year. Extra patients obviously mean extra PPE, such as gowns and gloves, and more blood tests, X-rays and all of that. For the coming year, Mr. Watt expects for a 23% increase in expenditure on medical and surgical supplies and an 18% increase in heat and light costs, laboratory costs, X-ray imaging and the costs of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: In terms of food, some catering staff are on the minimum wage. Energy costs and food inflation would be feeding into the increase but a 37% increase still seems significant. Is Mr. Watt happy that it is a realistic amount?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Is the 27% increase in X-ray imaging predominantly due to energy costs?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: Is that capital equipment?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: There is often a sort of lazy narrative out there that billions of euro are wasted in the health services and it should be stripped out. That is what we often hear, perhaps from politicians, but also from media commentators. How do the witnesses respond to that? I am playing devil's advocate here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: I appreciate that I am not at the Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach but I refer to my earlier point on the breakdown on funding. That is critical in where the expenditure is going. We need the heads and to break those down exactly because that is crucial in explaining healthcare. In positive news, we were in Galway together on Friday for the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: -----capital investment project in Galway and the HSE is on record as saying that significant investment is required in University Hospital Galway. That is not just for University Hospital Galway but for the region, including the accident and emergency department, paediatrics and maternity, new laboratories, which are over 50 years old, additional beds, the cancer centre, the surgical hub...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: I have a concern that I raised here the last time and I know the Minister addressed this in his speech the last day. He does not want to see projects like the accident and emergency department and maternity and paediatrics being left behind while we await a larger plan. That has always been my concern because we have seen this project advance. It was ready to go to planning as a shell and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

Seán Kyne: I will hold Mr. Gloster to that.

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