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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: They have never said to the bank that it has to reduce them within a certain timeframe to 3.5%.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: No, do not give me ifs.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: That is not the question. The question is when the regulators told Mr. Masding. When did they say he must have that ratio down to 3.5%?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: The ECB, the Irish Central Bank and the SSM gave the bank no such instruction and they have confirmed that to a delegation that attended. It is wrong for Mr. Masding to give the impression in his statement that he is acting under the cosh of these three different organisations. They never said it to him and they have confirmed that to us. To move along to the 13,800 homes-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: I want to clarify that for Mr. Masding. He asked me a question. It is in the first paragraph of his opening statement. At no stage did any of the three organisations I have mentioned ever tell Mr. Masding directly what to do in his bank relative to the 3.5% or how he could achieve it. That is the first point. The next point is that he complimented the 13,800 homes that have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: He goes on to make another comment that is accurate in part but is also inaccurate. He said that the protections follow the loan and that these vulture funds have to acknowledge the protocols that are in place. He knows damn well that is not the case. He knows the reality is that once a person's loan is transferred to a vulture fund, he or she is in trouble. That is not inflammatory or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: PTSB has 2,500 cases before the courts, some of which we know involve people who are engaging with the bank. PTSB has sold on all of these loans and it is pursuing 2,500 cases through the courts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: Even though PTSB has chased 2,500 individuals through the courts, justice is not going to happen for those 2,500 customers, not with PTSB because it has sold them on to the vulture funds. Does Mr. O'Sullivan think the vulture funds will remove these 2,500 cases from the courts and restructure the loans? The witnesses appear to think that the funds are a generous lot and that they do deals....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: Do not mind what anyone else said and answer my question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: PTSB was in the shoes, but has tossed them away. When PTSB was challenging 2,500 homeowners around the country, that was the time to address it. What it is now doing is outsourcing its dirty work to a vulture fund. It is ignoring the possibility of working individually with the people we are speaking about. That is essentially what Mr. Masding's response means. It is cold comfort for the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Sullivan saying PTSB did so in respect of each of the 2,500 cases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: Do these loans form part of the 2,500?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: Do they form part of the 2,500 cases before the courts?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: I am anxious to clarify that point because I do not trust the figures provided. It was mentioned at one point that 1,050 of the cases were homeowners. Were they ever presented to the Mr. Hall's iCare Housing programme for examination, it being the only agency that comes to mind just now as being an agency that might be able to help these people?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: Why did PTSB not allow the 2,500 homeowners before the courts to exhaust that process before it sold their loans to a vulture fund?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: No. PTSB has 2,500 homeowners before the courts. It has pulled the legal mat from under these people and sold their loans to a vulture fund, so it did not give them a chance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: That is justice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: PTSB has taken that away from the 2,500 we are speaking about.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: I do not believe that. It is a nonsense that PTSB has been peddling for some time now, supported by some commentators, but it totally untrue in reality and in practice. In regard to the 1,050 accounts, it was said in a statement from PTSB that these are attached to buy-to-let properties. Do the witnesses agree with that statement?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Property Loans (Project Glas) By Permanent TSB: Discussion (11 Oct 2018)

John McGuinness: The statement reads: "PTSB confirm that 1,050 loans on family homes, which are performing or meeting the terms of an agreed restructuring arrangement, are included in those being sold." In the case of these homes, again Mr. O'Sullivan mentioned three different possibilities for them. Did PTSB apply any of those possibilities for them in terms of a solution?