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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What happens in six months plus 30 days when the bank has frozen them out of their account, closed it and issued them a cheque if they have any money left, and there is an overdraft on the account? Will Ms Howard inform the committee how many Ulster Bank customers have overdrafts and give the average on those accounts? What does the bank do? Will it send it to a debt collecting agent?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: But there will be customers who cannot pay their overdrafts. What will Ulster Bank do?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Sorry. People are out there saying that they are finding it difficult to pay their electricity bill and are really struggling to put food on the table. Inflation is at 7%. Ulster Bank is withdrawing and they have been loyal customers. They have an overdraft of €2,000 and their account has to be closed by September or October. The kids will be going back to school then. What will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: So they will not have an account in the bank but they will still have an overdraft from the bank. How does that work? The account will be closed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am talking about customers who have not opened a new account who have an overdraft. Ulster Bank has closed their account on them in six months. What happens to the overdraft?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We know that. With respect, what happens? We know the supports. Ms Arnett wants to talk about the supports. I want to talk about what happens to the individual who cannot clear their overdraft, and has not closed their account. We know that Ulster Bank will close their account after six months and issue them a cheque 30 days after that if there are any funds. I am asking for clarity and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Maybe Ms Arnett can inform the committee of what that suite of supports is at a later stage because none of the bank's customers know what they are.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome our guests to the meeting. We have a lot to get through; I hope we get through as much of it as possible. I thank them for answering the questions in the questionnaire. That is very helpful. I will turn to Mr. Hayes to give us the real scéal. All the banks' representatives have told us how wonderful they are doing in terms of providing resources to customers. With...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Why did Ulster Bank not transfer its deposit accounts to Permanent TSB? Hundreds of thousands of customers are in a terrible situation where they have to switch, find their direct debits and deal with all the issues. Why were they not just transferred as part of the transaction with Permanent TSB?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Was it possible to do it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I can understand why Permanent TSB would take that position. Obviously, Ulster Bank is heavily concentrated in different regions-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: -----including in my county, and Permanent TSB will be opening four new branches in Donegal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Unfortunately, one will close. Is there not a big concern that if deposits do not flow into those branches, there will be an issue with their viability in the future? Permanent TSB is buying buildings and loans, but it has no deposits in any of those branches.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We do not want to be dealing with a situation a couple of years down the road where we find that customers did not migrate to those branches, and then there is a question in terms of closing branches at a future point. What is Permanent TSB doing specifically with regard to those 25 branches, as opposed to trying to attract as many customers as possible? Has it got a specific marketing or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. Some of it will be helpful. One of the consequences of KBC and Ulster bank withdrawing from the market, which is obviously a terrible thing for consumers and for the footprint of banking in the State, is the reality that many of the loans involved will be transferred to Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB. Many of those are fixed-rate loans. When customers come off the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Most customers in this environment will be looking to fix their rates.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I will ask the same question of Mr. Kelly because the same pertains to KBC, which is offering lower fixed rates than Bank of Ireland. For somebody who has received a letter, closed his or her account and transferred and whose fixed rate period may be coming to an end, will that person be hit with increased mortgage costs at a time when the ECB is likely to increase the rates in the coming months?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: If somebody moves from KBC today and opens an account with Bank of Ireland, and his or her fixed rate is coming to an end tomorrow, he or she will be worse off. That person's mortgage is going to increase as a result of being with Bank of Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is that not the reality? Forget about what the ECB is going to do in the future. That is going to make things worse. From Mr. Kelly's point of view, I am asking him whether any consideration has been given to trying to absorb some of the increases the ECB is looking at implementing or actually addressing the bank's fixed rates, which are quite high - extremely high in the context of Europe...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Perhaps Mr. Kelly will not speculate on this either, but KBC has a large proportion of warehoused mortgages. We have dealt with this in the past at different committees in terms of different banks' approaches to how we dealt with the mortgage arrears. They will now come over to Bank of Ireland. There is a concern that Bank of Ireland will deal with them more aggressively. My concern would...

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