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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: The numbers do matter to the public watching this meeting. This is Mr. O'Regan's forum-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: What scale of loans are we talking about?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Are we taking in the millions of euro in some cases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: The public is not aware of this. That sort of information goes across the scale of this issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: It just gets worse from year to year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is the loan from the HSE a continuation of the funding it gives to the organisation or is it a loan with interest?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: I wanted to clarify that. It is a straight loan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is a roll-over.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: In January. They are already hitting a problem in January.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: When I asked parliamentary questions to the Minister regarding loans and deficits, he was not able to tell us.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: They operate-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: The following is the picture. There is a significant deficit. The contract is sent. There may be some form of minimal negotiation. The contract has to be signed. If not, a 20% cut is imposed. As a result, organisations have to fund their operations in a different way, which means they have a larger deficit. As a consequence of that, some organisations are now coming under increasing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Of course. I am aware from different organisations of cost containment by way of various actions that have been taken. That is the factual position. It is a disgrace. It is a crisis and the public now knows about it because we have elevated it here and highlighted the detail. It cannot continue. The Minister accused me of scaring people. This is not scaring people. These are the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Since the report was produced and despite the Minister's assurances, we know now from the Department of Health that there has been zero dialogue as regards dealing with this issue. Is that a fair reflection?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: The Minister has said this but it has not happened and they are setting up this new forum which the witnesses probably have not heard of yet. It is interesting that they have not heard of this new forum. We now know the factual position of the scale of the crisis and how it will escalate year on year. It will get worse. Would it be fair to say that the top will explode because it is not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: I think that is a very accurate statement from Mr. O'Regan. It very nearly happened. The picture I painted in dialogue with the witnesses is where we currently are. Obviously, to everybody present, the most important thing is service provision. I outlined the requirement for future service provision as well, which is high demand. When I talk about full-time residential care, I believe...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: I agree; I see that myself.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: I have been mixed up with a lot of people but never with Deputy Durkan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Which Bernard?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: There are two Bernards.

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