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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Ms Deering can write into the committee. The specific question relates to the number of private and social allocations, which, to my mind, were 85 social and 92 private, and the other 841 that went into the rental market. I want to know how many of those were in Dublin and where the advantage of this funding is around the rest of the country versus Dublin.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: As well as the construction costs per county based on saleability, that is, the saleable price.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: To reiterate, there is no prospect of a developer being granted HBFI funding and that funding literally being sublent to any other builder.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: HBFI has due diligence to cover that off.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Will Ms Deering write to the committee informing us how HBFI covers off that process?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: It is always open to the developer to lend money to builders based on the fact that they are getting HBFI funding. HBFI would not know about it, but the builder could do it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: On projects.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Does Ms Deering agree that, effectively, it releases other funding for the builder that he may have? HBFI does not do any due diligence as to whether a builder is out of funds or in funds. Does HBFI not look at his balance sheet?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: If the developer has €10 million on his balance sheet that is just sitting in the bank, does that preclude HBFI from giving him money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: There is something very strange about the fact the people who appear to require the funding are not able to access it. The requirement of HBFI is that these people have a contract either with the county council or a housing body in order for HBFI to fund the development. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Correct.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Effectively, they need to be pre-sold.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Ms Deering said she is not getting applicants for some reason and we must establish that reason. It is very strange. Like Deputy Catherine Murphy beside me, I have no issue with housing in Dublin and it is obvious that it is where the biggest gap is. It has a bigger percentage of the population. Of the build-to-rent apartments, as we might call them, and their financing, how many are rented?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: They are not built. How many apartments are there in Dublin that are not rented?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Like me, Ms Deering might be of the opinion that number forms quite a large percentage of the stock. It keeps the rent up. There is a large percentage of empty apartments at the rate of rents we are discussing here and yet we are funding that type of apartment. Is that not strange?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: No. Is it or is it not strange? If there are empty one-bedroom apartments at that level of rent, how can it be said there is a requirement for more? Really, what is being done is ensuring rent stays up rather than reducing the rent and making the apartments available. That level of corporate rent is being maintained and the related entities in business. Mr. Alger should feel free if he...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Is it not just outrageous that taxpayers' money is funding something that could sit there to keep rents at their current extortionate level? If the witnesses think it makes my blood boil, it makes everybody's blood boil that we do not have the cop-on to use the money efficiently and build housing where people can live. How can the witnesses sit there credibly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: How can we, Chair? I am fuming at the prospect of nothing really being solved here except us financing cuckoo funds, it appears. There is not a Deputy on the committee who will disagree with that, including the Chairman.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: Does Ms Deering disagree with me?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Home Building Finance Ireland - Financial Statements 2020
(3 Mar 2022)

Verona Murphy: If that is the role of HBFI, how many apartments in Dublin are empty at the rental property rate at which Ms Deering has indicated these will be rented? How many are empty because they are not rented?

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