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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: First, to assure the Deputy and anybody watching, the committee has the correct information and the correct Vote, but during the meeting I will try to clarify the issue the Deputy raised. On what that subhead is used for, it provides for the communication and marketing expenses of the Department, including fixed and mobile phones, voice telephony and data network links.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am informed that there has been a change in the subheads due to changes in our financial management system and our accounting. We will provide a note to the committee regarding that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: This is being used by my Department to assist in any research needs we may have during the year with regard to the implementation of Housing for All.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: As far as I am aware, we have not made a definitive decision about how it will be used as of yet.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The kind of areas that are important to me are trying to understand, for example, what is driving cost within construction at present and those particular elements of it that may be relevant to the Department of Finance. That is the kind of issue that fund could be used for.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: There are 950 staff now involved in work that is related to Brexit. Our focus in 2021 was to support traders during the initial Brexit transition with more than 100 staff deployed in that role. As it stands, we now have 715 staff involved in customs-related duties, 87 staff in control functions, six staff in legislative services, 25 staff in support functions and 117 staff in trader...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: That is a really good idea. So far, the need for it has not arisen. What we do have in the Department of Finance is a number of members of staff who are seconded to different embassies. For example, we have Department of Finance officials based in London, Berlin and other embassies across the United Kingdom and the European Union. To date, there has not been a demand for Revenue officials...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: As the Deputy says, he has raised this with me on a number of occasions in the Dáil. At this point, it is not something that I anticipate will require revision to our Estimates at all. What the Department did across last year was to undertake a survey regarding what will be the home needs that we will have as we move to a more hybrid form of working. In terms of what the balance will...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The FSPO has not raised any concerns with me regarding the decrease in its Estimate across that period. I have regular contact with the office, and I have regular engagement with the ombudsman himself regarding it. The Estimate for 2022 does reflect the funding that the organisation brought forward and the requests it had for how it would be funded across that period. It is worth noting...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I met the ombudsman and members of his management team a few weeks ago. They raised no issues with me regarding the Vote. I do not have the information with me today on the progress the ombudsman has made on dealing with issues, but my understanding is that despite the impact of Covid on the operation and functioning of the ombudsman, the office has been successful in resolving many issues...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I have discussed this matter with my officials on many occasions during my time as Minister in the context of Finance Bills and other debates that have taken place but it is not my role to direct the Revenue to do anything in relation to this. They are independent in the exercise of their functions. Deputy Mairéad Farrell will be aware, from the appearances of the Revenue Commissioners...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I have not had a conversation with the Revenue on this specific matter. That is a matter which my officials would raise with them. On a number of occasions, I have raised this issue with my officials. This is a matter of those aspects that relate to the development of policy. I have raised this and discussed it with my officials on a number of occasions. In relation to the execution of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: In fairness, I am here presenting the Estimates of the Revenue Commissioners to the committee. I am not aware of the 1997 agreement that the Deputy is referring to. I re-emphasise it is not my role to mandate the Revenue Commissioners to initiate an investigation into this. If the Revenue Commissioners believes this matter merits investigation, they themselves would do so. It is not my...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Comptroller and Auditor General is fully independent in the exercise of his functions. The Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General is associated with my Department's Vote for reasons of history. As far as I can recollect, the Minister for Finance has always brought forward its Vote but it is fully independent of us in the exercise of its roles and, as the Deputy will be aware, has...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Revenue Commissioners have done an exceptional job over the past number of years as we have confronted the darker moments of the pandemic. I note the role that they have played in two different areas. The first was the exercise of their key function of collecting tax across that period, and doing so in a way that reflected the exceptional circumstances that taxpayers were in. They...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I certainly have no plans to refer any more services or collection roles to the Revenue. They have a full agenda as it is. I look at the work they will be doing this year. The zoned land tax is a big example. There is the work that is under way now as we exit the employment wage subsidy scheme. Their agenda is full now with the delivery of their core functions and I have no plans to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The vast majority of it has been very well spent. As to whether any detailed evaluation of the use of that funding and the operation of the scheme occurred, I do not believe it has yet, or not in a substantial way. Obviously, the scheme is scheme is still functioning. We are about to commence the exit strategy from that scheme. I anticipate that in the months and years ahead a large...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The sector itself thinks it was absolutely vital. The operation of that scheme in particular has been acknowledged by the sector as something that was incredibly timely and helpful for it. The Deputy will remember we introduced the scheme in the context of budget 2021. At that point we were literally about to go into another phase of our economy being shut down. Businesses that were going...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: There is neither time nor need for a bow. We had many employers we needed to help. I hope they can all successfully reopen. That is the most important thing. We now need to move ahead with trying to exit this scheme in a careful way, which is what we are trying to do. As we move through the second half of this year and see a jobs market that does not have the EWSS in place, I hope we...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: It is worth noting that across the period in which the current public service wage agreement was in place we had inflation levels significantly below the figures the Deputy is referring to for November and December. If we look at the period for 2020 we actually had some modest deflation of 0.5%. For 2021 the average inflation level across that period was 2.5%, although it increased very...

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