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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know it is different. Mr. Doyle knows that the gist of what I am saying is that each time their plan is used, they would get a modest royalty. That is all I am saying.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is the argument about using a uniform plan? I know there would need to be maybe ten different types for ten different family types, disability, elderly people, urban, rural, high density, low density, semi-detached and terraced - I understand that. Mr. Doyle still has not come back to me to say why this cannot be done. That is all I am asking him.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I want the Department to mass-produce. If we want to build them at scale, if we want to get 15,000 or 20,000 social, affordable and cost-rental units, preferably 20,000 or more, we are going to have to mass-produce. Does Mr. Doyle not agree? We cannot do it as it is. There were 1,166 built by the local authorities and 310 by the approved housing bodies, AHBs. That is all there was....

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know, but that is when we add turnkeys, Part Vs and everything else into it as well. That is how we get the 7,000 but that is taking some out of the private market.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it be possible for Mr. Doyle to prepare a paper for the Oireachtas and the Minister to say why we can do what I am proposing or why we cannot? Is that possible? I am not telling Mr. Doyle what to do but I would love to see it. I know in my heart-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: But there is the cost, the delays and the time. I have a final question on the AHBs. We had a long conversation the last time Mr. Doyle was here and we had the regulator, Susanna Lyons, here. I spoke to Ms Lyons again recently. An annual sectoral analysis came out which is a very useful document. It states: Future Intentions of AHBs The annual monitoring programme sought information...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: They can change the status to a limited company. They could register with the Companies Registration Office, CRO.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I gave the example to Ms Lyons on the previous day of one case where a private company is now dictating to the tenants that the rents are going up. By the way, since I last spoke to Mr. Doyle about it, more of the tenants have been forced to apply for social housing. It is social housing they are living in, built with taxpayers’ money on a site previously owned by the nuns or by the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I ask him to liaise with the regulator.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I spoke to her last week about this. What I am concerned about is that 11% of AHBs have not come back yet. The percentage of properties is another day's work. What we are all watching, and I hope the Department is watching, is what happens to those houses when they are unencumbered from a financial point of view. Are AHBs going to be in a situation where they become private landlords? I...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Will Mr. Doyle please express my appreciation to Mr. Roger Harrington and ask him to continue his efforts with the regulator to get on top of it?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: The senior executive officer, SEO, in the housing department in Laois County Council is also on the case. That brings us to the end of our questions to the witnesses. I thank Mr. Doyle and the staff of the Department, and Ms Connors from the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, for preparing for this meeting. I also thank the Comptroller and...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: The public business before us this afternoon is as follows: minutes, accounts and financial statements, correspondence, work programme and any other business. The first item is the minutes of the meeting of 25 May, which have been circulated to members. Do any members wish to raise any matters regarding the minutes? No. Are the minutes agreed? Agreed. As usual, they will be published on...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. McCarthy. Do any members wish to come in on those?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Was the €1.68 million that had been committed in respect of work that subsequently was not carried out because the contractor terminated the contract goodbye money? If not, what was it?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. We will seek that information. Are the accounts and financial statements agreed? Agreed. As usual, they will be published as part of our minutes. The Comptroller and Auditor General has to leave us early today, so I thank Mr. McCarthy and his staff for attending the meeting and assisting us. We will move on to correspondence. As previously agreed, items that were not flagged...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Deputy Murphy. I know that we totted up the cost of these here before going back over the last 25 years, and it has come to a large sum. There may be a need for standalone body, but if there is already a body there which can be beefed up, and its role expanded, it would be better. Most people would be happy enough to see that we would get a cost-effective way of dealing with it,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay, we will take that as agreed. I will move on to No. R1907 B, which is from Mr. Ken Jordan, principal officer at the Department of Rural and Community Development. It is dated 24 May 2023, and it is providing information requested by the committee arising from the meeting with the Department on 30 March 2023. It is proposed to note and publish this item of correspondence with the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I saw in correspondence relating to the Carmichael Centre that it was trying to put in place a replacement system. We also need to get a reply from the Department regarding the rural regeneration and development fund. There is a huge differential in what has been received by counties. For example, County Mayo put in an application for a total of 13 approved projects and received €30...

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