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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 1:In page 7, lines 3 and 4, to delete “in the case of a bank, a bank authorised (or deemed to be authorised by the European Central Bank on application therefor)” and substitute the following:"in the case of a bank, a bank authorised, or deemed to be authorised, by the European Central Bank on application therefor". I will speak to amendments Nos. 1 to 5,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 2:In page 7, line 5, to delete "of the Act".

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 3:In page 7, lines 6 to 8, to delete all words from and including "in" in line 6 down to and including "therefor)" in line 8 and substitute the following:"in the case of a building society, a building society authorised, or deemed to be authorised, by the European Central Bank on application therefor".

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 4:In page 7, between lines 29 and 30, to insert the following:“(c) in paragraph (b) of the definition of “credit institution” by substituting “section 17” for “section 27”,”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 5:In page 7, line 33, to delete “European Communities Act 1972 (No. 27 of 1972);” and substitute“European Communities Act 1972 (No. 27 of 1972) to give effect to the Directive of 2014;”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I thank Deputy Doherty. I will read the briefing note.As part of the public consultation process in relation to transposition of Directive 2014/49/EU on the deposit guarantee scheme a number of submissions were received from the credit union sector, including from credit union representative bodies favouring this position. Question 7 in the consultation document asks for justification for...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I am awaiting advice. The Department has until May 2016 to make a decision. The size of an institution and levels of its assets are factors when one tries to make comparisons between financial institutions. However, the really key question is the risk and it is in trying to measure the risk objectively that I will arrive at a decision. It is possible to have a credit union with a small...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I am not going to make a decision now, but I hear what the Deputy is saying.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: The PRISM model is a supervisory model but we do take all considerations into account. No decision will be taken in the immediate future on this issue.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I am sure we will be here for the finance Bill again; we will be here regularly.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I have not thought out a timeline but I will not rush this issue.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 6:In page 11, line 5, to delete “, with the approval of the Minister,”. The amendment is being made after my consultation with the ECB on the DGS part of this legislation. They have indicated that as the purpose of this provision is to reimburse the Central Bank for short-term loans it has provided to the DGS, this repayment from the Exchequer has to be...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: That is a legitimate point of view but the banks are now heavily capitalised and one would go through a lot of other assets before this funding mechanism could be triggered. While the Deputy has identified a risk I do not think the risk is very big. Frankfurt is chary of its independence and because of the legal position under the Lisbon treaty, in particular Article 123, the ECB will not...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Yes. The figure the Deputy is seeking is €380 million. Deputy Pearse Doherty is right that the phrase "with the approval of the Minister" was included in the original draft. Like many matters where Europe and the European Central Bank are involved, we were obliged - after we published the Bill - to have consultations with the latter. It was quite convincing in its argument that to...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I do not see a crossover into other areas. It is obviously very complex but the essential idea about monetary financing is that the central banking system in Frankfurt or any of its components like the Central Bank in Dublin could not financially assist the Exchequer because one would then get involved in monetary financing of a fiscal position. If money was owed to the Central Bank by the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: It is like arguments about what certain articles of the Constitution mean. I remember an experience when I was in the Department of Justice and I asked the Secretary General about what a particular article in the Constitution meant. He very succinctly answered that it meant whatever the Supreme Court decided it meant. It is the same with monetary financing. It is monetary financing if the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Legislation is not complete until it is signed. If it was completed when the Attorney General provided a stamped copy to a Department, all the work of the committee members as parliamentarians would be redundant. There is always provision for amendment and we are amending on Committee Stage on the basis of the consultation with the European Central Bank and the legal advice underpinning the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 7:In page 11, lines 18 and 19, to delete “after the coming into operation of this Part ”. With the Acting Chairman's permission I shall speak to amendments Nos. 7 and 8 together.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: These are technical amendments to streamline the wording and to make it absolutely clear that this provision applies to money recovered from DGS actions commenced before the coming into operation of this Part. It has no substantive effect on section 13.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (3 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 8:In page 11, line 20, to delete “1 November 2015” and substitute “the coming into operation of the Deposit Guarantee Regulations”.

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