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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: What time period? When Mr. Watt speaks about approval as part of the Estimates process, to what part of the year is he referring?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Around September or October. It would certainly be by October.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: It would have been around that time. Mr. Watt wrote in his letter: "the purpose of this letter is to propose an agreement to the secondment of Dr Tony Holohan to Trinity College Dublin in this regard." He also wrote: "I anticipate that these [the details of the agreement] will be finalised within the time frames set out below." The letter then set out the details, which included a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: With respect, Mr. Watt is missing the point. The contention is that there was no proper scrutiny of this process. There was no ministerial or governmental approval. Mr. Watt's contention is that that would have come as part of the Estimates process, but that would have been after the event. I did not write this letter - Mr. Watt did. In his letter, he set out that Dr. Holohan was to have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Mr. Watt was asking Trinity College to approve the terms described in this letter by 31 March. The CMO was to be in his new role from 1 July. However, the democratic oversight and approval that Mr. Watt spoke about would not have come until afterwards.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: People are trying to make reasonable assumptions and form an opinion based on what they see before them, and what they see before them in this letter is very clear and specific in terms of its details, commitments and timeframes. At no point does it say "subject to ministerial approval" or "subject to an Estimates process". I do not know whether the Health Research Board would have needed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: We have been across this already. With respect, that is not the question I asked Mr. Watt. I ask Mr. Watt to bear with me. I am not trying to be unfair. I asked him a direct question. We have been through all of that, that the Minister did not have the full details. We do not need to go back over that ground again. The Minister obviously became aware of the details once that letter...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. Watt to allow me to finish my question because he does not know what I am going to ask him. At the point when he became aware of this, as the rest of us did, when this came into the public domain, did he express a disappointment that he did not have that information at any stage up to that point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: He never expressed any regret or disappointment that he was not informed of those details.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: I am talking about afterwards. I ask Mr. Watt to please just address the question I have asked because I am, to be fair to him, being very specific. We have already established, through the timeframes, including up to the "Morning Ireland" interview, that the Minister was not aware of the details. Obviously, he became aware at some point. We became aware when it came into the public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: I know that. At that point, did the Minister ever express regret that prior to that he was not informed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: So, the answer is "No"

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Is the answer "No"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: But, Mr. Watt would recall it if a Minister was saying to him, "I'm unhappy, Mr. Watt". To be clear, he either did or he did not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: That is what I wanted to know.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Of course. I am asking Mr. Watt about those private conversations. I am asking him about conversations in regard to this process. We are entitled to know the Minister's view. I have a final question. The circular issued by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in December 2021 in regard to secondments states that all secondments will be temporary in nature and, in general,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: How many of the 14 people who are currently seconded are on open-ended secondment in another Department? How many of them are outside of the range of six months to five years? Once the secondment was put in place, for how many of those 14 people was it agreed that it would be a permanent transfer?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: It is zero, is it not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Can Mr. Watt come back to the committee with the details in regard to those 14 people? We do not need names, just the details of their roles and for how many of them, at the point they departed, it was clear it was a permanent departure or that it would be what is now termed an "open-ended secondment"? The Secretary to the Government, when before the finance committee, had no knowledge of...

Written Answers — Department of Health: Emergency Departments (28 Apr 2022)

David Cullinane: 276. To ask the Minister for Health the estimated direct and indirect impact on mortality rate of patient experience times for emergency department admissions in excess of 12, 24 and 36 hours, in tabular form; the increased rate per 1,000; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21547/22]