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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: There has been a fair degree of discussion about the specific nature of the discovery orders. Is it possible to itemise or summarise the various discovery orders made?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: There were orders in February, April and September. It is relevant.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Okay. At this moment the officials are not able to tell us what the nature of that discovery order was.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: I appreciate that. The officials are asking us to accept that the emails were not handed over because they had not been asked for, but they cannot tell us what was asked for in May.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Okay. That is something of a difficulty because we are trying to gain an understanding of what was appropriate to hand over. We are not dealing with complete information at the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: I appreciate that. That information needs to be provided. Although much documentation has to be prepared, much of the discussion has been in regard to what was asked for and I am unsure as to what that was, which is a big problem. As regards those of which the witnesses are aware, would the process of preparing the documentation to be submitted in the discovery orders have included...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: That is one of three discovery orders. Did the other two discovery orders involve a search of email accounts, in particular those of the six senior officials?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: To the best of the witnesses' knowledge, there was no trawl of emails related to any of the discovery orders.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: The point has been made that it would not be of assistance to the commission or tribunal for there to be such a trawl which could potentially produce a large number of documents, yet the trawl that has taken place has produced two chains of emails which will be helpful as it is difficult to see that they would not be. I share the view expressed by Deputy Brophy that it is difficult to credit...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Is it correct that the Minister was informed on 13 November?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: He stated that he was informed by telephone of the broad parameters of the email's contents but was not sent the email and did not inquire as to the nature of the row or legal dispute at the O'Higgins commission. On the same date, a press release was issued by the Department in the name of the Minister and related specifically to the O'Higgins commission, the legal approach taken there and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: It is difficult to accept that he received such a phone call and issued a press release of that nature but did not seek further detail on the nature of the legal query, perhaps on foot of receiving a draft of the press release. How was the documentation discovered on 9 November? How was it initially found?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Will Ms McPhillips read into the record which parliamentary question specifically led to the discovery of the email?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: A point regularly relied upon is that it would have been improper for the Minister to get involved in the process at the commission. The use of the word "improper" is quite specific. The Tánaiste, Deputy Coveney, made specific reference in the Seanad to the fact that neither the Minister nor any other party should interfere with the adducing of evidence at a commission. Does Ms...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: On the basis of the first part of Ms McPhillips' answer, the conversation that led to the first email was in breach of the Act.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: I understand from media commentary on the issue that the Minister noted the first email that emerged into the public domain, which was sent to the former Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, and her staff on foot of the call from the Office of the Attorney General.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Was that correspondence was noted several weeks later?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: What is the process for a Minister to note a piece of correspondence? What happens to prompt an email?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: In the Department's eyes, does that constitute official recognition that the Minister has read the document?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Functioning of the Department of Justice and Equality: Department of Justice and Equality (6 Dec 2017)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Is Ms McPhillips happy to put on record that there was no wilful non-disclosure or deliberate non-disclosure of the documents?

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