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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Our problem is the taxpayer is bearing the brunt of all of this. We have a systems failure of the highest order.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: There has been much talk about the strategic housing developments and the implications they have had. In a previous role, would it be correct to say Mr. Walsh was involved in drafting the legislation underpinning the strategic housing developments?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: To answer the question, Mr. Walsh was-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Walsh's position today has been that the legal costs that have arisen out of the board's decisions in relation to the State's strategic housing developments were almost beyond the board's control because it was making a decision based on the legislation-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes, but legislation which Mr. Walsh was involved in drafting and on which he was charged with advising that same Government and Oireachtas.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Okay. We were talking about the issues of the challenges and the areas that have been points of concern. I want to give an example of a case. As this case has concluded, there is no issue. It is in relation to a telecommunications mast in my own constituency that I am aware of in a small village called Glaslough. Monaghan County Council refused planning permission for that. I have the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: As I say, this matter has been resolved. The direction states, "Furthermore, in deciding not to accept the Inspector's recommendation to refuse permission on visual and built heritage ... grounds the Board considered that on balance the location of the site did not affect or injure the character or setting of the Glaslough Architectural Conservation Area" and so on. At a previous meeting...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Walsh might let me finish.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: I did not say that at all.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: I spoke in respect of potential anomalies with regard to the make up of the board and any connections they might have. There are only two sets of people who have the capacity to learn of those anomalies. One is investigative journalists. They did their job. The other is the Accounting Officer of An Bord Pleanála. I must ask again, in the context of the myriad allegations that have...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: That is so.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: What is available is a report from Monaghan County Council stating why permission should be refused. There is also a 34-page inspector's report as to why permission should be refused. There is then a four-page decision of the board overturning both of those decisions with virtually no rationale included. That is what is publicly available, to be clear.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Does Mr. Walsh expect a farmer in Glaslough, somebody who runs a local shop or somebody who lives on the street to go to the effort of doing all that? Why did Mr. Walsh not do that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: When trends and anomalies emerge, does Mr. Walsh not consider he has an obligation to investigate why they have happened prior to their becoming headlines in the national news?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Going back to the hearing last year, Mr. Walsh mentioned and reinforced on several occasions during that meeting that board members are selected at random for cases.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes. Mr. Walsh was very forceful on some points in making that case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: We now know, I do not think it is disputed, that in the context of telecommunications mast decisions, there is a very clear pattern in terms of the membership. Who assigned those members to those boards?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: So it was either Mr. Walsh or Mr. Hyde.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: In how many instances would it have been you?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: In the context of telecommunications masts, in what percentage of cases would Mr. Walsh have been consulted?

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