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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: They own the premises they occupy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: I thank Professor Higgins very much for his presentation here this evening, and all the witnesses for making their time available and for their contribution to progressing this project. I know that they are all very busy. We heard earlier from Mr. Simon McGarr, a solicitor, who outlined that under the 299-year lease the buildings will not belong to the State but to the St. Vincent's...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: What about the issue of permitted use?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Every other legal practitioner would accept a leasehold title of 299 years as good title to acquire.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Do I get 15 minutes as well?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: The last speaker did.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: I am aware of that. In fairness, the witnesses are here-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: So it is good legal title?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: So I would have full control over the property for which I would have a 299-year lease?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: There are senior counsel and other legal people with opinions in circulation. One opinion states that in terms of the ownership of the lands, the owner of the lands is St. Vincent's Healthcare Group and that there is no proposal to change this. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: The opinion of the senior counsel – I believe a second one has been issued in the past few days – is that, technically, the HSE will not own the building and that it will be owned by the St. Vincent's group.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: In layman's terms, clause 4 of the lease, entitled "DEMISE", states "the Landlord HEREBY DEMISES unto the Tenant ALL THAT the Premises ...". What does demise mean in layman's terms?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: I thank the Minister and all the medical and legal people for attending. May I deal with the legal issue and the issue of the 299-year lease? If I told the legal people present that I was going to buy a house for 299 years and intended to get a mortgage, would it be regarded as having good legal title? Would I have full control and possession of the property even though there would be a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Under the terms of the lease, is the tenant or lessee totally responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the building such that the landlord has nothing to do with the building in real terms?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Is Mr. O'Donoghue saying that what is there-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Is Mr. O'Donoghue saying what is circulating at the moment from the legal people is incorrect? Are they incorrect to say the State does not own the building?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Colm Burke: There is more than one legal opinion circulating.

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