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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Sovereign Wealth Funds: Discussion (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Professor Kinsella has given us a lot of food for thought. I ask him to discuss what he envisages to be the future for the national reserve fund. In case I did not convey my view, I believe that catch-up capital is required, which means it does not go into the fund and there is a role for investing in the domestic economy. How do we invest now to ensure we are secure in the next ten to 15...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Sovereign Wealth Funds: Discussion (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: We had this conversation 20 years ago.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Sovereign Wealth Funds: Discussion (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: So we know where the economy ended up.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Sovereign Wealth Funds: Discussion (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Anglo Irish Bank. I agree with Professor Kinsella that we are in a great place. It is a great solution to find out what we should do and how we invest it. I thank the professor for his valuable insight.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Sovereign Wealth Funds: Discussion (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The professor's insight is valuable to the committee and will be very informative.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the witnesses for coming before the committee and I thank the committee for agreeing to our proposal to host this module. There are very few people in the State who have not been victims of fraudsters or whom fraudsters have attempted to make victims of. We are all inundated with these text messages, whether these purport to come from eFlow or An Post. These days, we do not really...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Regarding authorised push payments for the year for which we have data, that is 2021-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: For the entire year, we are talking about close to €17 million. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This was an increase of 35% in that year. Even though we do not have data for 2022 or the first part of 2023, we can all reasonably expect this level has gone up significantly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. Work was done on this by the banks. I am sure many of us here and those watching would have got calls from the bank to say there had been an attempt made to buy an 85-inch television or a trip to the Bahamas, and the response would have been that this was nothing to do with us and those payments have been stopped. For unauthorised payments, a rule of thumb is that they are all...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. What we are looking at here is the issue of customers being defrauded and ending up substantially out of pocket. Regarding authorised push payments, which is what we are discussing, the value of these types of payment is significantly higher than the most common types of unauthorised push payments. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: We could be talking about someone being out by €4,000 as compared to someone being out by perhaps €90 in a credit card scam.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, it is a lot lower. I was looking at the report from the BPFI which stated the average card payment fraud was only €90.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am sorry. That is across all cards.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Authorised Push Payments Fraud: Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (24 May 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is why the levels of scamming are much higher. Given the trend in this regard, is it fair to say we are losing the fight against the scammers? They are steps ahead of us. There has been a 35% increase in authorised push payments and there are significant levels of unauthorised push payments. The number of people defrauded and the value of the amount of money pocketed by the...

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