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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Does the property owner in that instance have to have a tax clearance certificate in the same way as anyone who is dealing with the Department directly would?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Ms Baxter, we can be blunt. In this instance, the Department is not making the payment directly to the property owner. Is that not the case? The Department is paying the intermediary.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: The intermediary has to be tax compliant. Does the property owner that the intermediary is engaging have to be tax compliant? Does the Department see it as its job to ensure that the property owner is tax compliant?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: It is crystal clear from the witnesses' responses that, in this instance, the property owner does not have to present a tax clearance certificate. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: There are three people involved. In most instances, the Department deals with a property owner and has to ensure that everything is correct, including that there is a tax clearance certificate. In other instances, the Department is using an intermediary or an intermediary has approached it. The Department has to ensure that the intermediary is tax compliant. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: In this instance, the person invoicing the Department is the intermediary and the person who is invoicing the intermediary is the property owner. For the fifteenth time, I will ask-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----whether that property owner has to be tax compliant.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I asked a simple question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: The answer is "No" and the property owner does not need to be tax compliant. I do not know why three minutes of my time had to be wasted without that simple answer being given.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Does the Secretary General want me to go and investigate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I do not know whether there is any suspicion. I asked what I thought was a simple yes-no question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I have one more question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Are the current contracts with intermediaries for fixed terms? I presume that they are not and that there is flexibility instead, given that the accommodation might be needed for shorter or longer terms.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: For a set time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: On average, what is that time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: An intermediary will enter into a contract with the aforementioned property owner for the same period. If one of those property owners contacts the Department after the three or six months are up and says that it is involved with an intermediary - we assume the intermediary is taking a portion of the payment but the Department does not know what that figure is - but is willing to give the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I take it that it is the case across all of the accommodation being provided through intermediaries that, if the property owners decided they wanted to deal with the Department directly, the Department would take them up on that offer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: We are told that the contracts are for three to six months-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----so it will not be too long before that becomes an option for them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I will make clear what information the committee needs to get on intermediaries. We need to know the number of intermediaries and who they are; the amount they have been paid; the proportion of that they received as opposed to the accommodation provider; the number of properties in each case; and the number of individuals accommodated via each of them. We need to get a handle on this...

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