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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Some hotel owners do not watch the news. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: The Department is essentially still paying the intermediary but it is paying on a per room, per night basis. Does Ms Baxter have a notion off the top of her head as to what the skim would be or what percentage of that would go to the intermediary?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Have we never thought to examine that to see if we are getting value for money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: If I am correct, we do not know precisely, or this committee does not know because the information is not available to us today, how much we are paying intermediaries and we do not know what proportion of what we are paying them is actually being retained by the intermediaries. Is that the evidence we are receiving?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am told that in some parts of the country, if I have accommodation and I want to offer it or utilise it for international protection housing, the only way I am going to get into that business, for want of a better term, is through an intermediary.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: That is the Department's preference. How low does that go? We have been talking about hotels. Are we also talking about guesthouses and single dwellings?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Would intermediaries take on single dwellings?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Ms Baxter is not aware that any single dwellings would be used by intermediaries for such housing.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: By “complex”, does Ms Baxter mean an owner of multiple properties or would the houses have to be literally adjacent to each other?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: That is interesting. It would be very helpful if we could be supplied with the payments that have been made directly to intermediaries and kept by intermediaries. I might come back to this later.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I wish to return to the issue of intermediaries and their role in housing people seeking international protection. How many intermediaries does the Department have engagements with currently?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am coming to that. This is just so that we can get a picture. How many properties – hotels, guest houses and individual dwellings – are involved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: The witnesses do not know the answer. How many individuals are accommodated through arrangements that have been facilitated by intermediaries?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I would have thought-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: In terms of how intermediaries work, is it the case that the Department says it needs X number of people to be accommodated and asks the intermediaries to source accommodation or do the intermediaries approach the Department and tell it that they can accommodate a certain number of people? Alternatively, has the Department simply told the intermediaries to go for it, to get the Department...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: The Department has spoken to the intermediaries. Are only existing intermediaries being engaged with or could the Chairman and I decide to become intermediaries and get a slice of the action?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am asking about intermediaries. I want to get a sense of that situation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: I presume that everyone the Department contracts with must have a tax clearance certificate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: Must the intermediary have a tax clearance certificate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth
Chapter 13 - Guardian Ad Litem Follow-up Report
(27 Oct 2022)

Matt Carthy: The Department is paying the intermediary, who is paying the property owner.

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