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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: Its status is listed on this sheet, Circular EL 02/2012, on the reduction in overtime payments and cost of allowances. Will Ms Tallon explain what is happening with the 14 allowances listed on the sheet?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I am not begrudging the craft worker, the wastewater worker or whoever receives the dirty money allowance; rather, I am arguing the fact that he or she needed an allowance for the job he or she was doing and that it was not made part of his or her core pay, but that is a broader point. What is the current status of the 14 allowances?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I thank Ms Tallon for helping me to navigate the list. I have two final questions, the first of which I have asked of every Secretary General I have had the opportunity to question. It relates to the potential scope for consolidation and is an ongoing issue. In some sectors it has been very apparent, for example, in the teaching profession. When we had a discussion with Ms Tallon's...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: Okay, that is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: That makes sense. My final question is on the role of county managers which was discussed with the unions earlier. Their title has also come up in this discussion. As part of the reform agenda, they are due to be replaced or renamed. Do county managers get allowances? What is the status of their pay? I make this point because there are a number of staff working in local authorities, in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: In addition to their salary, do county managers receive additional payments or are these arrangements made at a local level?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I thank Ms Tallon.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: Tomorrow is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I will raise the issue of Irish Aid and overseas development aid tomorrow.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: That is a helpful clarification. I share the concern that has been expressed by my colleague, Deputy Seán Fleming, about the significant number of potential allowances that continue to apply. I understand it is a question of timing and that there is work to be done. Is there a definitive timeline for when the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform will have the final number of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I thank Ms Buckley. I would like to raise a couple of issues with Ms Tallon. If we are looking for a model of something clear that can be picked up and understood by taxpayers, I suggest the table that summarises the individual local authority business cases is it. We need to give credit where credit is due. Over the course of these hearings, this is the first time I have picked up a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: Ms Tallon and I are familiar with Wicklow, which is not on the list. Am I to presume that no individual local authority allowance is in place in Wicklow? Is it simply a question of no business case having been submitted in respect of the allowances there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: The Department has received-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I am not being parochial. I am just using Wicklow as an example. The same thing applies to the other counties that are missing from the list. Is it the case that there are local allowances in place, but the Department has found there is no point in submitting business cases for them-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: -----and chosen not to do so?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: Does that account for the list of 160?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: That is very helpful. I have noted some local variations in the document. We have discussed this with every Secretary General. I refer to the kind of variance at local level. For example, it seems there are many keyholders in Laois. It seems peculiar to me and to most people. There must be many keyholders in Wicklow. Even after all these discussions, I am still confused about these...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I apologise to the people of Laois. The details were hidden under a staple in my copy of the document.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: I take that point. I am making a broader point. How come we have keyholder allowances in one area but not in another? I want to get to the bottom of the matter. Is it basically a case of local unions negotiating successfully with county management over the years to get additional allowances? Have unions in some geographical areas been more successful than others? I cannot believe there...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Simon Harris: When will we get a definitive decision from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government on Wicklow and all the other missing county councils?

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