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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: What is the percentage?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: What is the risk? The Commission's assessment was 70% in 2022. The Minister of State has brought forward legislation now. What is the risk? Has the Department done that? If it has, what is the risk? Is it 60%? Is it 70%? Is it 5%?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is the Minister of State's view that the 70% extends across all of the products - the four different categories - at this point in time because that is what the legislation deals with?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Exactly, the objectives. Obviously, there is a brutal illegal war being waged by Russia on Ukraine. It is important that taxpayers would know exactly where our money is going to and what safeguards are there. Is it to help to rebuild the infrastructure there? Is it humanitarian aid? Are there objectives in terms of the loans that are being provided?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister of State for her comments. In scrutinising this Bill, I do not think there is anybody who is opposed to it, but they can speak for themselves. At least on Second Stage, we did not see that in terms of supporting the principle of solidarity which is at heart of the European Union supporting a country that, through no fault of its own, has found its economy in free fall...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am talking about the MFA+.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: No. In the context of the MFA+, which is dealt with in Part 6 of the legislation, does the Minister of State have any forecast in relation to the State's envisaged contributions? Schedule 4 deals with the schedule between us and the EU in terms of the MFA+, is that correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: To clarify, I am not referring to section 6 but to Part 6 of the Bill and to sections 17, 18 and 19 which we are discussing, which deal with the issue of-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: -----MFA+ and the contribution agreement. The contribution agreement is in Schedule 4 to the Bill.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is Schedule 4 to the Bill connected to the MFA+?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This section allows, for the first time, the State to enter into an MFA+ contribution agreement. Therefore, it is enabling legislation. That is what section 18 does. The terms of that agreement are set out in Schedule 4. Is that not correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I ask the Minister of State to explain the terms of this agreement in the context of what we are being asked to agree.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Does that mean there will be no variation regardless of the GNI of each member state during the lifetime of the agreement?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: When will the final-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Of course.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Section 19 deals with the call on the Exchequer, which is why I wanted to raise these in this context. I may table amendments on Report Stage. As the Minister of State knows, we are very supportive of the legislation and particularly EU support for Ukraine. In that context, as we know, support may be required directly from either the European Union or the bodies in which we have...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State made the point that in a war scenario, there is always a risk or fear of corruption. Does she have concerns about corruption in the pre-war period in Ukraine?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Of course, and that goes without saying. Returning to the legislation we are scrutinising and which I support, it is important to ensure that large amounts of Irish and EU taxpayers' money is actually reaching where it is supposed to go. The Minister of State mentioned that she has no information on corruption prior to the war. This issue has been well documented and I suggest that she...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Nobody suggested that, with respect.

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