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Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I thank Mr. McCarthy. We will now move to the opening statements of our other witnesses as set out in the letter of invitation. They have five minutes to make their opening remarks. I ask Mr. David Moloney to make the opening statement on behalf of the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I am sorry Deputy Ardagh, who has been waiting eagerly, but as it has just gone 12 o'clock, I will suspend the meeting and we will resume after 15 minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I thank Mr. Moloney. We will suspend for a break at 12 noon and then resume shortly afterwards. We will now open the meeting to members. The lead speaker today is Deputy Connolly, who has 15 minutes. The next speaker will be Deputy Byrne, who, like other members, will have ten minutes. If time permits on the conclusion of that round of questions, I will allow members back in for a second...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I will just let the C and AG, Mr. McCarthy in here.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Hopefully, the Deputy will have an opportunity to come back in. I have a number of questions. I thank all the witnesses for attending. It has been a useful engagement. There is a lot of concern, rightly and understandably, from the public about the mismanagement and overspending of money by what I categorise as a serial offender, namely, the Office of Public Works. A number of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: So the Department shares those concerns.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: What actions has the Department taken on those concerns? The Deloitte report is there. What actions has the Department taken on foot of those concerns?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: The Department is confident. Is that what I am hearing? It has a level of confidence that we will not see-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: -----reoccurrences to the same degree we have witnessed within the OPW.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Does Mr. Moloney have concerns about any other bodies? Is he engaged in any specific work in relation to any other bodies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: What is the specific function of the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Does that office provide information with regard to GDPR responsibilities, etc.?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: The reason I raised that is there is a concern. There is an issue I imagine Mr. Moloney is familiar with in relation to the public services card. Concern has been expressed by the Data Protection Commissioner about the collection and usage of biometric data. That issue has been going on for a lengthy number of years. Mr. Moloney will be aware of the recent ruling by the Data Protection...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Has that ruling by the Data Protection Commissioner influenced the use of gov.ie?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Mr. Moloney is aware of the considerable fine of €550,000 by the Data Protection Commissioner concerning the use of that biometric data in respect of the public service card. It has been suggested that the fine will be appealed. Experts in the field have said it does not amount to value for money and could potentially end up in the European courts. Has the question of appealing the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Does the Department of public expenditure have any role in it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Okay. In regard to public private partnerships, there has been a lot of focus on the recent decision to scrap bundle 3 of the PPP that would have provided for the construction of 486 houses. We had officials from the Department of housing before the committee some weeks ago and we asked them specific questions about this. What role did the Department of public expenditure play in the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: The Department had no role whatsoever in it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Mr. Moloney is indicating that the Department of public expenditure has no role in this. It has been cited that there were value-for-money issues, costs had grown considerably and a particular decision was taken. Is the Secretary General saying there was no engagement between the Department of housing and the Department of public expenditure in regard to this PPP bundle?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

John Brady: There is no decision-making role but Mr. Moloney says he is not sure whether there was discussion and maybe there was.

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