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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: The Deputy will have to deduce that herself, I am afraid, and so will the public.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I thank Senator Higgins.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: We have to move on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: In his remarks earlier, Mr. Fraser was forthright in his outline of what must be done in the Department of Health to give better value, reform it and so on. I am sure he will agree that needs the full support of the management structure underneath the Secretary General. Does he agree with that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Let us turn to the HSE. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform was at the forefront of denying the legitimate and approved award of 5% under report No. 42 of 2007 of the review body on higher remuneration in the public service. The excuse the Department trotted out was the financial emergency measures in the pubic interest, FEMPI, legislation. If this cohort of workers within the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I do not believe Mr. Fraser does not know. He has answered so many questions this morning-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Fraser does not know the answer to many other questions that have been asked this morning. I find it hard to fathom that someone at the centre of Government, as Mr. Fraser is, having been there for as long as he has, does not know some of the things that are going on. This particular issue has gone on for some time. In response to the question as to whether there will be knock-on...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: It is an industrial relations issue that was resolved to the extent that a 5% increase was awarded but it has been denied to that group by the now Secretary General of Health who continues, in that position, to do what he did when he was in the equivalent position in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. He is denying these workers the pay increase to which they are entitled. Is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Would Mr. Fraser mind arranging a response on that specific issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Fraser is a member of the Top Level Appointments Committee, TLAC. Where is the secretary to TLAC based?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I am not questioning that at all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I have never met the person concerned but I do not doubt Mr. Fraser's word for one minute. However, I will say that the arrangement by which TLAC sits within the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform does not look well. We have correspondence. All of the applications for the job were to be sent to Mr. Fraser.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I have a letter here which says that in line with a Government decision of 21 February 2012, expressions of interest are invited from all serving Secretaries General to whom TLAC retirement terms apply. It goes on to say that applicants should contact Mr. Fraser before a certain time on a certain day.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Did that letter go out?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: It says in this letter that if a person wishes to express an interest in being considered for the post, he or she is to contact Mr. Martin Fraser by noon on Thursday.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Candidates are asked to mark correspondence as private and confidential.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: That is right.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Also among the correspondence is an interaction between TLAC, the Secretary General of the Department and Mr. Fraser about the booklet. The booklet is being discussed in this correspondence. There is also an interaction between the then Secretary General and someone other than the Minister urging that steps be taken to fill the vacancy. My point is that it all looks very cosy from the...

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