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Finance (Local Property Tax and Other Provisions) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Committee and Remaining Stages (25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: Mar a dúirt mé, tá an Rialtas ag cur na cánach seo ar achan teach ar fud an Stáit agus go leor i gcruachás ó thaobh costas de. The Minister rightly made the point that if you abolish the local property tax, then you have to provide the money to the local authorities. He gave a figure of €600 million. We have shown the Minister time and time again...

Finance (Local Property Tax and Other Provisions) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Committee and Remaining Stages (25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 2: In page 3, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following: "Report outlining a roadmap for the removal of local property tax from principal private residences without loss of revenue to local authorities 3. The Minister shall, within 3 months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report outlining a roadmap for the removal...

Finance (Local Property Tax and Other Provisions) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Committee and Remaining Stages (25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister for clarifying that thousands of families in homes with defective blocks will have to continue to pay local property tax. That is the reality. The defective blocks are there. The fact only 1,000 have an exemption shows the restrictive measures in place. There are families living with this horror and this nightmare. Let us be clear: the local property tax will not...

Finance (Local Property Tax and Other Provisions) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Committee and Remaining Stages (25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 1: In page 3, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following: “Report on the accessibility of the local property tax exemption for those affected by defective concrete blocks 3. The Minister shall, within 3 months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report on the accessibility of the local property tax exemption for...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome the Minister and Minister of State to the committee. Will the Minister confirm that the NSSO was not tax compliant from the years 2015 to 2024?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. The NSSO is under the remit of the Minister's Department. Was it tax compliant between the years 2015 and 2023 and including a portion of 2024?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: Was it tax compliant?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: So the office was not. If it were an individual, it would not have got a tax clearance cert because it owed millions in tax, did it not?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: How did it miss €2.3 million in taxes that it collected from retired civil servants but forgot, was it, to pass it on to Revenue? How did that happen?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: No, because your Secretary General actually wrote to Comptroller and Auditor General saying that they investigated that matter, they provided the €2.37 million to them plus interest of nearly half a million euro and then confirmed that they carried out a further full review to ensure the corrective measures were put in place and that Vote 12 was tax compliant going forward. That is an...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: So how did the NSSO collect €2.3 million tax from retired civil servants for a period of nine years before that and forgot to hand it over to Revenue? Did the Secretary General ever get to the bottom of that?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: Does anybody at this committee know? The Secretary General carried out a review.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: When the Minister found out then that there were another 13,000 individuals who had not paid their proper tax - Ministers, former and current, and senior civil servants - did he not ask the issue of-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: That follows the full review that was carried out by the Department last year into the NSSO to ensure it was tax compliant. Sorry, was there a full review carried out by the Department last year to ensure that the NSSO was tax-compliant?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: So a full review was carried out.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: That is not what was said in terms of the Secretary General of the Department. It was said that a full review is being carried out with corrective measures to put in place to ensure that Vote 12 is tax compliant going forward. We now find out they are far from that. Even though they paid the €2.3 million plus €500,000 in interest, we now know that loads of other people had...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2025
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(25 Jun 2025)

Pearse Doherty: Thirty-two Ministers were overpaid. Basically, the tax was not deducted properly.

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