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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: If members of the governing authority other than Ms Harney were asked if they believed that an independent valuation was available, would they all be of the view, given the written evidence that was put before them, that a valuation was available?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: There is no concern on Ms Harney’s behalf. DCU is a fantastic university in my area. They carry out a lot of good work. This is an empty site. I imagine that there was huge enthusiasm for it. Does Ms Harney believe that the enthusiasm in the room resulted in the members not carrying out the due diligence, or the conversation that should have happened? Or does she believe that the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I appreciate that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Ms Harney says that this was the preferred site.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I can understand why it might be the preferred site. However, Ms Harney can understand our concern that just three days earlier, a funding application had been submitted to the Higher Education Authority, HEA, which included options. This site had not been included in that. First, I cannot get my head around why, if this was the preferred site, it was not included in that application....

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I can understand that. I can understand the reasons for Limerick, as well as for the university. I will come back to the idea I was pursuing. The president submitted a document to the HEA. He was aware that a different, parallel option was available and that it was being actively explored by the university-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: So it happened within that window of-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Does Ms Harney think it was the president's intention to submit an alternative report to the HEA? Was the HEA aware that an alternative site was being examined?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Does Ms Harney believe that there was a belief within the governing authority that it was misled?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I accept that but Ms Harney is a member of the governing authority, has a view and is here before the committee. Does she believe the governing authority was given correct information or does she believe it was misled?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: That would be the wide view of the-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: That brings the governing body to the unenviable position whereby a staff member who essentially heads up the university is providing information to the governing authority and the governing authority, which has an oversight role, relies heavily on the information provided by staff. For the benefit of anybody who is not a member of a board or governing authority, we are talking largely about...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I do not doubt that in any way.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: The governing authority does rely heavily on the information provided by the university.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I am looking beyond the publication of the report and any findings that come from that. The fact that the only source of information available to the board is from the people over which it has oversight does present an inherent risk to the board. In other words, there was no independent option for the board. It could only rely on the information put before it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: This is why I imagine members of the governing authority are so frustrated. They believed they were presented with one set of information and it transpired that it was a different set.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Where I would disagree with Ms Harney is on the idea that the corporate entity cannot share the document among itself. In my view, the document is within the University of Limerick and I do not see any reason why the governing authority could not see that report in advance of it being published unless it had received legal advice that circulating it to 27 people on a governing authority...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Ms Harney has my sympathy on that point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I do not understand it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
University of Limerick Financial Report 2020
(12 May 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Speaking on the issue of good faith, and I accept what Ms Harney has said, a document comes before her outlining an option to purchase it. I imagine there is huge enthusiasm in the room for it and it is approved. I accept all of that. However, there is a difference between that and the results of the FOI where the governing authority was told that a valuation took place and FOI and I...

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