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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank the witnesses for attending and for their very helpful opening statements. I will start with Mr. Convey. It was interesting to hear him say that when primary school students go into post-primary school, they have a lack of full understanding of STEM. What could we recommend to rectify that problem? Is it the absence of any awareness of technology and engineering or is it broader...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: What level of understanding should a child in primary school who is about to enter post-primary school have when it comes to technology and engineering? Is it just an awareness of what it is involved?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I have a question for Mr. Duffy. I very much agree with what he said about maths. Many people are intimidated by it in secondary school. Of course, they should not be. Those who are able to do it, may not find the ability to do it or are not liberated in order to understand it. What can be done to make it a more appealing subject to people who are going into secondary school?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Presumably, trying to make it more fun for students is something that should be started in primary school and not just waiting until post-primary school.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Before I come to Mr. Jones, I note Mr. Duffy spoke about the leaving certificate syllabus being too long. What would he like to see gone from it? Not that he would like to see anything gone from the syllabus, but how could it be reduced? What would he drop or would he try to make it less intensive in terms of the broader areas that are covered?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: In his statement, Mr. Jones mentioned he believes the junior certificate science cycle is being dumbed down. Will he elaborate on that? Since I was in school, there is a new subject, physics and chemistry, that students can take for the leaving certificate. It is one subject that involves the study of both areas. Is Mr. Jones concerned that this may be dumbing down science as well?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Yes. There is a subject for the leaving certificate that combines physics and chemistry. Is Mr. Jones concerned that this may be dumbing down science?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: We are covering too much in the junior cert cycle and Mr. Jones would like to see a lesser curriculum that is examined in more depth.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank all three witnesses for coming before the committee. I am very interested to hear what they have had to say. Professor Looney mentioned the higher performing cohort in mathematics in Ireland. Sometimes, we do not give sufficient attention to that higher performing cohort of students. She indicated, as did a previous witness before the committee, that we do not compare that well...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: When should we be identifying that higher performing cohort? What should we be doing to bring them up to the standard of their international peers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank Professor Looney. Turning to Dr. Kyne, I was interested in the statistics in THEA's submission regarding the participation of women in PhD studies in STEM subjects. I thought it was relatively high, but I was surprised it was 43% of-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Okay. It was mentioned to us at a previous meeting, last week or the week before that. I was surprised because I did not think it would be that high. What was mentioned previously, however, was that when we then look at how people progress in their careers, and if we go to the level the witnesses are at, for example, for some reason women tend not to get to the professorial or high...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Of course.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Okay. Would Professor Looney like to come in on this point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I could see she was very anxious to do so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Is there an argument to be made that people should be given consideration for professorial roles in their early 30s or is that just not going to be feasible?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Turning to Dr. Kelly, in terms of her sector and the HECA, could she say what percentage of lecturers in STEM in that context are female?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: The teaching of STEM subjects is an expensive business. Is there competition between third-level institutions when it comes to attracting appropriately qualified teachers or is there more supply than is required?

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