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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Is there information we have yet to receive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Is this the largest single group? What about the HSE, which is an obvious group?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The HSE has grown from the health boards, which grew out of county committees on health. They all have their roots at county level. It goes back a few years. The committee must be conscious of this point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: That is exactly my point. The Department has notified us of allowances that amount to a few euro a day. My opening remark was about travel allowances paid by the month or the quarter to, I suspect, every area engineer and road supervisor in the country. They are entitled to them and the allowance probably represents good value. It must amount to a large sum of money. The Department has...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Would that not be standard in every local authority?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: How does a person claim-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I understand and we are agreed on that point. I have no problem with the allowance, but I am seeking a note on how the system operates. Would a city or county manager have the information? The Department does not need to survey every local authority. An area engineer or road supervisor with a couple of depots in his or her area would hop in a car, travel ten miles today and 48 tomorrow....

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: That is probably it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It goes without saying that, to make sure everything is right, there are procedures to obtain Revenue's approval for these allowances.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Otherwise there would be tax implications. Did I hear Ms Tallon correctly, that information on 160 allowances was not sent to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: How much do these allowances cost? We will not waste our time on the small ones, but what about the large allowances payable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: What was the cut-off point? How did the Department decide what information to send? Did it send good information over which it could stand and hang onto that it could not stand over? Perhaps the Department only sent information on the small allowances, but information on the large allowances was not readily available.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Is there a list of the 160 allowances applied?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Have we been given the list?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Will the witnesses circulate the list?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Does the Department have the list of the 160 allowances that was not forwarded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Has the Department forwarded the list?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: That means its work is incomplete.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 25: Environment, Community and Local Government - Review of Allowances
(31 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The number of allowances might be large or small. We have heard about 1,100 allowances, but that figure is now 1,260 and we do not have information on 160 of them. We are trying to get a complete picture. I am not suggesting anything untoward has been done. How did the Department distinguish between what it was and was not going to forward?

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