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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I have two questions. Two rates apply for partnerships and individuals. How did the Minister arrive at the rate of 16%? Did he just decide to reduce it by 50%? Is that the metric that was used or is there something else that satisfied him as regards the 16% rate? Regarding the commencement order, will the Minister indicate when he expects the procedures to be in place? Will it be the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This change relates to the definition of a holding company for the revised entrepreneur relief. It will now be the case that the holding company must be a parent company with at least 51% in their subsidiaries and its business must consist wholly or mainly of the holding of shares in those subsidiaries. I would like to hear the view of the Minister and his Department about a concern that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This proposal is one that the Commission on Taxation and Welfare recommended as regards limits on tax reliefs. The commission argued that it had to be set at a high level so that we would not have family farm break-ups and so on. Have any data been collected on how many farms could be impacted by this limit? Obviously, a farm with a value of more than €10 million is a large holding,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Section 48 relates to CGT relief on properties. Yesterday, we spoke about landlords leaving the market and the CSO suggesting there has been an increase in tenancies. As policy makers, we face a challenge in figuring out the accurate data. I know another committee is looking at this and the CSO is trying to do a matching purpose with the RTB. That will be helpful for all of us because we...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I hear what the Minister is saying in terms of clarification. I will come back to the substance of the clarification that is in the legislation. The Minister said the relief is tapering off, which means that by 2021, the tax liability increases for landlords who do not dispose of their property. Every year they hold the property, the more capital gains tax they pay. This is a serious...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I want to take issue with the last point. After the seven years they are not into the normal CGT situation, as I understand. There is a formula relating to the gains that have accrued. Say they are €200,000. It is minus those gains divided by seven eighths. Therefore seven eighths would apply if it was 2022, which is one year after the seven years. It will be seven ninths for...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I hear what the Minister is saying but I am thinking of when the scheme came in. We are in a different place and I will not get into looking back. I did not like it in the first place but there was a rationale around trying to get activity into the property market and the whole idea was that people held for four to seven years. As time went on, the worst time to dispose of it was at that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I accept that Revenue has been applying the provisions the Minister has outlined in respect of how this is operating. I do make the point that we are changing the law. Intent is one thing and that is fine. The law does not say "purchased". There would be a risk here if this were legally challenged because we do not have the word "purchased" in it. I understand that is why the Minister is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 25: In page 80, between lines 4 and 5, to insert the following: "Report on the application of stamp duty on the buy-back of shares 49.The Minister shall, within six months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report on the application of stamp duty on all purchases by companies of their own shares, and requiring companies to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister's response is disappointing. Apart from the bit at the end, most of what he said is almost word for word what he or his predecessor have told me on previous occasions through parliamentary questions and other means. We understood the tax strategy group was looking at the issue in a preliminary way, with the Department looking at it in more depth. I accept there is an issue in...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I withdraw my amendment.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 27: In page 80, to delete lines 31 to 38, and substitute the following: “ 11 October 2023 €606.39 €606.39 €526.83 €526.83 €526.83 €60.00 €164.23 €149.09 €142.76 €79.17 €9.36 1...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: If the committee might bear with me for a moment, I thought the Minister would speak for more than a minute.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I hear what the Minister is saying. We have heard it before. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. Prices will continue to go up. I am sure the Minister is aware that the Government in Germany, a coalition which involves the Greens, paused its carbon tax increase last year in the context of the cost-of-living crisis. Their carbon tax is set at €30 per tonne while our is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am not opposed to this section. It involves a significant increase, and a bigger one than we have seen in recent years. I am just conscious of something I see in the community all the time. I do not know what a packet of cigarettes costs now - about €17, I think, with this increase. We are talking about €170 for a carton of ten packets. The number of people who are coming...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I just want to make one final point. I thank the Minister for the data. It would not be nice to see the trend with regard to where that is moving and how it is correlating, if it is at all, with price in the Irish retail market. However, at the end of the day, I know most people are still buying these products from behind the counter in Irish shops and if one, in particular, is trying to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Can I have some clarification as to how this will apply to cider and perry with a high percentage, or a percentage above 8.5%? What does this do to the typical product on the shelf? It obviously increases the excise but what does this do to the price of a litre of cider?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: All right.

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