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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: ------in that there is a potential unfairness here which may need to be resolved. That trawl needs to be done and if there are people who, through no fault of their own may have ended up in that situation. These were people with disabilities who probably would not have had, or their families would not have had, the means to challenge this and just accepted what the HSE said. It would be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Watt has a responsibility to do that, I would say.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: You did comment on it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I wish to deal with the issue of people in private nursing homes. I am reading from the 2011 memo. We asked the Department to submit to the committee the memos that were given to Ministers in 2011 and 2016 as well as the notes from 2017. The Secretary General stated that releasing those documents was a matter for the Government, which it is. Can we write to the Minister and ask that they...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: The Attorney General's memo stated that the health boards had a dual strategy of public nursing homes in the first instance and, if those were not available, private ones.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Watt will agree that it was like a lottery system. If a medical card holder happened to get a public nursing home place, he or she was compensated, but if he or she was one of the unlucky medical card holders who had sought public nursing home places but, because none was available, ended up in private nursing homes, there was no compensation for him or her, through no fault of his or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Now Mr. Watt has got to the heart of the issue. It was unfair. That is our point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I certainly did not get any sense that this was unfair from the Attorney General's report. In fact, the reverse was the case and it was described as sound.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: He was referring to the legal strategy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I accept that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I am not trying to put words in Mr. Watt's mouth. We are in agreement that, at the time, there were those with medical card entitlements who had an option of public nursing home places if they could find any and, if they could not, private nursing home places. However, some people had no choice but to go into private nursing homes and to be supported by the health boards because there were...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: The assertion that proceedings should be fully defended is also questionable, given that most of these cases were settled when they reached the point of discovery. Does the statement that they should be "fully defended" stack up in light of how cases were settled before or at a point of discovery? This does not suggest "fully defended" to me. "Fully defended" means going to court and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: There was a good article in last week's Sunday Independenton the Conroy case. The Conroy family went public. It was an important case. The family stated that they had the means to go all the way to the discovery phase when other families did not have that opportunity. In 2017, an email was sent from the Department to the Chief State Solicitor's officer about the case. It reads: ... we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Why settle cases then if they were so strong? Why settle all of these cases at the point where they got to discovery? I am reading again what it says: "Discovery should be avoided in all cases ... The reality of making discovery or running a hearing in one of these cases continues to be too risky to be seriously contemplated." Mr. Watt is saying there was a really strong and robust legal...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: The Department is saying that it had robust legal defence, but there is no robust legal defence. It is saying that these are "too risky" and that at all costs settle before it gets to discovery, and the Department did settle on unpalatable terms. This means that some people would be paid more to ensure that others would be paid nothing. This seems to me to be the logic.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It is my interpretation. In any event, I believe this is another issue. I am pleased that at least the Secretary General accepted the principle of unfairness for those who had medical cards and who through no fault of their own ended up in private nursing homes. The State is putting up a defence but I gave other examples-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: We will go back over the record and look at it. It will be clear what Mr. Watt did or did not say. That is my view of what was said. If Mr. Watt wants to correct-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Written Answers — Department of An Taoiseach: Departmental Schemes (14 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: 102. To ask the Taoiseach the number and details of compensation or redress schemes put in place by his Department since 1998, in tabular form; the number of claims made; and the total cost of the scheme. [6470/23]

Written Answers — Department of An Taoiseach: Departmental Schemes (14 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: 103. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number and details of compensation or redress schemes put in place by his Department since 1998, in tabular form; the number of claims made; the total cost of the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6459/23]

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