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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Over what time period would that be?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I need to come back in once more. I have to put it to Mr. Morton again that the response times are completely unacceptable. The percentage increase in the targets which are not being met is also really concerning. I received a submission from a qualified paramedic, titled the failure of the recruitment campaign, NRS02294. I want to read one paragraph from it and for Mr. Morton to respond...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I will start with the different types of response calls. Clinical status 1, the life-threatening cases, are the ones we need to respond to as quickly as possible. They are echo and delta calls. We then have Charlie and bravo calls, which are clinical status 2, serious but not life-threatening, and alpha and omega calls, which are clinical status 3, non-serious or life-threatening. Are any...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: There is some evidence to suggest that. We hear a lot about the offload turnaround time in hospitals, which have unfortunately increased, as Mr. Keeley noted in his opening statement, through no fault of paramedics. We hear about ambulances parked outside hospitals from which patients cannot be disembarked because no bed or capacity is available. Is that a growing problem? During the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Keeley is saying it is a problem but a contingency plan is now in place. More is being done to alleviate that problem.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I will come back to the Brady-Flaherty report. It has been mentioned by a number of witnesses, including Mr. Morton. This committee requested that it be furnished with the report. Before they leave, will the witnesses confirm whether there is any impediment to them giving this committee the report? Do they have to get permission from Dublin City Council or the Minister or can they make...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Exactly, and most of it was serialised in a newspaper anyway. I ask for that to be done. Were the recommendations of the report fully implemented?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: When we get a copy of the report, we could be back asking the witnesses to identify the recommendations that have not been implemented and asking for the reason or rationale. Am I correct that Mr. Damien McCallion commissioned that report? He is now in a senior position in the HSE?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I think it was.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I will come back to two critical issues, response time and delivery of services in Dublin. There are particular problems with response times in the south east. I met Mr. Morton and some of his colleagues and senior management in the past about that region. Before I ask about that, I will return to the issue of delivery of services and governance in Dublin. We talked about an alternative...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: How did we get to a point where we allowed a situation to arise in which there is an average of 30% statewide for delta calls but only 19% in Dublin?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Morton said it was due to capacity and not enough ambulances. How does Mr. Morton think it got to that point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: That does not correlate with the other information I have. I wish to come back to Mr. Morton and get a response to the different opinions on the alternative model for Dublin before the session ends. On the issue of response times, in the south east, the average response time for both delta and echo calls was 21 minutes in 2019. In 2020, it went up to 22 minutes. In 2021, it was 28 minutes...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It is quite a shocking figure, for someone who lives in the south east. It is more shocking when considering that it includes cardiac services. In County Waterford, my constituency, there is no 24-7 service for primary percutaneous coronary intervention, PPCI, as Mr. Morton will be apparent. People in counties Tipperary and Waterford and other parts of the south east have to travel by...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: This is a yearly figure, so they can fluctuate. I am being fair by looking at year-on-year comparisons.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I would like Mr. Morton to answer the question about the alternative model for Dublin. Everything I have heard today from both key witnesses is that there are capacity issues, more ambulances, ambulance paramedics and capacity are needed and response times are going in the wrong direction, which we can see from the figures. I do not see the urgency in the response. I do not have time to go...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I am not asking that question. I am asking whether, in Mr. Morton's view, there is a difference of opinion in what the two organisations see as the best model. I understand it is a difficult question to answer because Mr. Morton may have a view of what the best model, which may differ from that of Mr. Keeley's organisation. That is partly why we are in the position we are in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: There needs to be a level of honesty about the problem is. Will Mr. Morton define what he meant by "thorny issues"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: If Mr. Morton and Mr. Keeley, for example, were given the authority to come up with an alternative model, does Mr. Morton think they would be on the same page and they could do it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Ambulance Services, Recruitment and Retention of Personnel, and Response Times: Discussion (22 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I accept that. At the end of the day, it has to be about what is right for patients.

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