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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I will withdraw it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: We have made an interesting point. The Minister has indicated that if we have a unicameral Parliament, the committees must be better resourced. If we save money by eliminating the Seanad, there are already plans in place to spend more money on running the Dáil.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 7: In page 16, before section 6, but in Part 2, to insert the following new section:"6.—A committee conducting an inquiry established under this Act may conduct an inquiry into the conduct of a member or former member who was a member of the House on the date of the commencement of that inquiry.".This is a subtle point I referred to on Second Stage. I know the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 6: In page 16, before section 6, but in Part 2, to insert the following new section:"6. --A committee conducting an inquiry established under this Act shall consist of fifty per cent of members of the current Government party and fifty per cent of members of the opposition.".This straightforward amendment is clear in what it suggests. The current Government has an...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I always accept the Minister's good intentions, but life does not work out that way. The Oireachtas will do what the Oireachtas does, namely, go by its membership. It will claim that, had the primary legislation intended equal numbers, it would have included such a provision instead of remaining silent on the matter. The Oireachtas will conclude that no such requirement was intended and...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Is the Minister referring to the investigations committee?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Ahead of Report Stage, is the Minister of a mind to provide that Part 2 inquiry committees should be chaired by Opposition Members? He seems to have been in favour of it-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I will revert to this matter on Report Stage, but the Minister would be making better legislation were he to include such a provision. The House's long-established practice is for the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts to be a Member of the Opposition, including former Deputy Jim Mitchell and other distinguished Deputies. It is probably the only committee to have stood the test of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: It was after the current Dáil formed. The Committee of Public Accounts is a good model. I do not know whether legislation sets it out, but the fact that the Opposition chairs the committee probably helps it quite a bit. With no disrespect to this committee's Chairman, who is his own man, Government members can often come under pressure from Ministers. It is less likely that Ministers...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No 1: In page 13, line 6 after "data" where it secondly occurs to insert the following:"and includes cloud computing storage devices".This amendment is very simple. The section deals with various records and storage facilities. The Minister has often spoken about IT and cloud computing in the Department. I wish to have it confirmed that cloud computing, wherever it is and...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I accept that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Some Departments wish to exclude items from the Third Schedule. Ms O'Reilly gave the example of the school inspection reports. These are not included but the Department has published them on its website. In a way it is better because one does not need to go through the FOI system and the website is more convenient, which is better for everyone.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Ms O'Reilly has touched on another good point. As a Deputy I have experience of seeking information from various bodies. The Committee of Public Accounts requests information from bodies which it is investigating and it may only receive a certain amount of the requested information. However, a journalist making an FOI request will be given more information. There is an anomaly. It seems...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: The report notes that many non-disclosure provisions have been introduced since 1997 and that 50% of the non-disclosure provisions have been introduced in the past five years. A Government has the right to have non-disclosure provisions. However, I recommend that there should be a formal mechanism for notifying the Information Commissioner when this is being applied. Legislation is being...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Is that in the annual report?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: There are non-disclosure provisions with regard to the European Central Bank. The Government is probably concerned regarding FOI requests for Central Bank information which might release information about the ECB and other countries.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: A number of these items which are excluded from the Third Schedule are EU directives. Why is information on EU directives being restricted? It seems bizarre. I compliment Ms O'Reilly on an excellent and concise report. I did not read every line of it but the gist of it is very clear and understandable.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I welcome Ms O'Reilly. I ask her to explain the last paragraph on page 1 of her presentation more slowly because it is complicated. Section 32 is a very important provision because it subordinates the access provisions to the FOI Act to all non-disclosure provisions in other statute, apart from those included in the Third Schedule to the FOI Act. I ask her to break that down in steps for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: As Information Commissioner, Ms O'Reilly's wish would be that more items would be included in the Third Schedule.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Non-Disclosure Provisions Under the Freedom of Information Act: Discussion with Information Commissioner (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Fortunately or unfortunately I was on the committee which dealt with this issue. It was complicated and we had trouble drafting a report. I ask Ms Reilly to comment on, for the benefit of everyone else, any of the Departments mentioned. Page 34 refers to the Department of Health and says 24 non-disclosure provisions are already included in the Third Schedule. The Department has them, Ms...

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