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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Stop the clock if the Cathaoirleach is going to question.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: The Cathaoirleach had better stop the clock, please. I have had the answer I want.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: It is a fudge in regard to what it bears witness to, which is the release of a document where client privilege can be waived by Mr. Bakhurst. Now, I will ask again. I started this morning on the basis of Mr. Bakhurst's assertion that Mr. Tubridy had a moral obligation to repay the money. Everybody on this committee agrees with me. We represent the public. That is a fair percentage of...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Does that mean Mr. Bakhurst has not changed his mind?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: He has not changed his mind.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I am not finished, Chair. I have another minute. In that meeting, there were four people, Dee Forbes, Noel Kelly and his colleague, Niamh, and Trish Whelan from the RTÉ legal department. On what basis is Mr. Bakhurst claiming legal privilege? What capacity did Trish Whelan hold? What advice was she giving?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: The client no longer-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Going back to his moral obligation, Ryan Tubridy and Noel Kelly came before this committee and waived their privilege. Mr. Bakhurst was the very person who asserted Ryan Tubridy's moral obligation, yet he is failing to assert his own.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: On the record, he is saying that he does not have a moral obligation.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I do not agree.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: We have to have Uisce Éireann come before the committee to counteract what might be said about the delays in providing social housing. Often the utility companies are blamed so they will need to be here.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: If not, one will make an excuse over the other.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: We also have to have accountability for the central funding of local authorities. It is a €6 billion fund. We are intent on discussing moving accountability to the Comptroller and Auditor General. This is the premise for the discussion, if the Cathaoirleach recalls.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: If anything comes up, yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I am not sure whether I may raise an issue relating to this morning's session with RTÉ.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: It is the issue of compellability. Although we have given an option to Mr. Bakhurst and RTÉ with regard to whether they produce the documents, we should move on and make our arrangements while we wait. If there is a satisfactory resolution, that is well and good, but we need to move on with the process for public confidence. We will see what happens in the interim.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: In any case.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I concur with Deputy McAuliffe or he concurs with me, whichever. I respect what Deputy Dillon is saying but we are already in a scenario where the chair has agreed, in front of the committee, to give us something that RTÉ is withholding and he is going to have a conversation about that, but we do not have time to waste. Our timeline does not allow for all this. We have the Hallowe'en...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: In addition, we do not want people coming in here thinking all they have to do is kick the can down the road and the committee will run out of time.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (12 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: We should bear in mind that if the report in respect of the redundancies is finalised, we will probably need to have the representatives of RTÉ back in immediately. That report is expected at the end of October.

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