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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: These public service bodies are generally agencies of a Department. In terms of the circular letter that was issued, it is interesting to hear the explanation being offered that it applied only to civil servants and, therefore, the public service was left to one side. That is not good practice. If we are expecting one policy to be followed by a civil servant, any agency that comes under a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: In this case the hope has not succeeded because this has now been put forward as a distinction. The circular applied to a civil servant but it does not apply to a body that is part of the public service. What process is in place to make sure the hope Mr. Moloney has that the public service will follow the line of the Civil Service in respect of the policy, and the letter that was issued in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Would Mr. Moloney cover such matters as the salary for the person?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: When Mr. Moloney considers the person holding the post in the Civil Service or in the public service who is about to be seconded to a university, what would he look at in terms of that sanction? Is it as broad as what he has just said and that is it? Does he consider the knock-on effects of that person departing their role, will that person be paid by the Department or by the university and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: The example is obvious. The reason we are having this discussion today is because of the arrangement that was being made with Trinity College.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Is it fair to say Mr. Moloney, as the Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, you knew nothing about this prior to the request for sanctioning having been made by the Department of Health?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Was Mr. Moloney in any way alarmed by the initial suggestion of the secondment, the salary and the other financial attachments to that position?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: There was no engagement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Yes. There was no engagement prior that and what about after 31 March?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Three weeks after 31 March. Therefore, nothing happened in that three-week period.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: From Mr. Moloney's knowledge of it, it was not something that came across his radar. Was it dealt with by the section?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: There was a lack of engagement on the funding aspect.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: It is clear that now we know there was a lack of engagement regarding the funding arrangements.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Mr. Moloney just said there was a lack of engagement on the funding arrangements-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: -----so there was no funding arrangement, no funding proposal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Yes but that funding arrangement would be part of the consideration in terms of the secondment, I presume.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Funding issues of five years at €2 million or of five years the cost of a salary or more, or for a longer period of time, must surely have been an issue somewhere. Correct me if I am wrong but-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: No one ever proposed that. That is fine. We can leave it at that. In terms of anyone going on secondment to the Civil Service or public service, does that person's salary continue to be paid by either the parent Department or by the Department itself if the person is a Secretary General?

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