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Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: The Senator has resigned from them.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: It does not, unless they are on permanent service, which is rare.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Yes.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I have dealt with the matter already.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Does the Senator wish "Government policy" to be removed?

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: That is without prejudice to the representative associations' ability and capacity to advocate on behalf of their members' interests, which is quite a broad range.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Yes, it does. They advocate for housing. The representative bodies have been established with a function, to represent their members. The representational nature and function of the representative bodies is in no way stymied or undermined by any provision in this Bill. The inclusion of "without prejudice" is to make that legally crystal clear. The Attorney General and his office are...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: The issue is that Senators are seeking legal guarantees in respect of the representative function of the representative associations. That is secure; I made sure of it. I went back to check it. The Attorney General is clear that this is achieved in the section relating to prejudice.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: We indicated earlier that we believe a political Independent is covered by the term "political organisation".

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: As we speak, any consequences fall to the Minister to decide under the 1954 Act. The level of delegated authority is quite low. In fact, I envisage that the new CHOD legislation we discussed earlier will create a far more sensible picture in respect of disciplinary matters and so forth. As it stands, any discharge, for example, inevitably wends its way to the Minister and, ultimately, to...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: As the Senator knows, one rarely gets into the precision of a concentration of a substance in primary legislation.In the making of these regulations, the Minister of the day will take advice.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I thank the Senator for bringing his experience to bear on this debate. Essentially, what is happening here is that we are amending the principal Act to say a member of the Defence Forces shall be subject to drug testing in accordance with regulation made under this section. The Minister may, in relation to members of the Defence Forces, make regulations to provide for the establishment,...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I will be in the other House at 5.15 p.m. to seek Dáil approval to start PESCO and EDA projects.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I do not believe it should be as huge as is being presented.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: What time is the Debate due to end in this House?

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I am available until 4.45 p.m.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I will come back to that issue on Report Stage.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I thank Senators for raising this issue. What is the context? Why is there a recommendation for an external oversight body? Its genesis is in the independent review group, which recommended not just the establishment of such an external body but also that the Secretary General would be a member of it.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: When I debated this in the other House, and prior to the publication of the independent review group report, almost every person in that House, representing different parties, asked whether I would accept all of the recommendations. They asked me to give a commitment that I would accept all of the recommendations or whether I would welch and do this. I met the independent review group,...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: That will not really be the case because the recommendation was for an EOB into the Defence Forces, not the Department, arising out of testimonies and the work of the IRG. The evidence is conclusive that previous iterations of independent monitoring groups, which had representatives on them, did not work. Everyone looked after their particular agenda. I have been in this position for 18...

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