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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: If the Commission wants to hire a civil servant who is currently employed in the Civil Service-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The figure here is €100,000.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: How could it cost €100,000?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am not on the Committee of Public Accounts.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I agree with the Minister but on this point-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am trying to be fair here. The Minister referred to the liquidation of IBRC, the promissory notes and legal challenges, none of which comes under the programme expenditure heading we are dealing with at present.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That was approximately 15 minutes ago and the remarks in question related to the additional €5 million.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I made those remarks when the Minister was dealing with administration costs - at which point the Minister was entitled to reply to them - and not during my opening statement.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: A referee is always welcome.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am asking the Minister a direct question in respect of the €350,000 in additional moneys being provided for consultancy fees. The liquidation of the IBRC and legal challenges relating to the banking sector come under other headings with which we will deal presently. The briefing note provided indicates that the €350,000 relates to the development and implementation of the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that when we are dealing with human resources we cannot go into the detail. However, the allocation falls under the consultancy category. Has a contract been awarded to a consultancy firm to deal with it, or is it included in a quantum of money for dealing with the particular human resource issue within the Department?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Will it present itself in salary costs in future years?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Does the figure of €350,000 paid to consultants relate to the drawing up the of the medium-term economic strategy document that was released before Christmas? Does it come under the economic planning initiative?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: It falls under the category of consultancy and other services. As such, the question arises of who is carrying out this work. It seems to be the case that these are external services and will not be done within the Department. If departmental staff were undertaking the work, the costs would come under salary costs and be included under a programme. This allocation, however, comes under...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: In regard to the administration category, we have mentioned the training that is ongoing within the Department, recruitment of officials and so on. This is one of the areas that was flagged up in terms of the Department not being fit for purpose at the time of the crash - that we did not have the necessary skills mix among staff. Given what the Minister has said at previous meetings about...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The Estimates deal with staff and human resources.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that point. However, this an opening statement but the opening statement by the Minister-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: We understand there was a bid from an external agent to take over Bank of Ireland a number of weeks after this State, through the Minister for Finance, announced a recapitalisation of €3.5 billion for that bank but before the recapitalisation took place. We will deal with figures later in the meeting but it is very important that those documents are located or returned.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I challenge that, and I will explain why. It is a point that needs to be raised. The Estimates will show staff and training costs and expenditure on processes and procedures. If two documents relating to the recapitalisation of a bank which cost the State €3.5 billion have gone missing in the Department whose Estimates we are considering, if this is not a matter which is germane-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that and I acknowledge that the Chairman has always been fair. However, it is my genuine belief that this is an issue because as we consider the budget for the Department of Finance in greater detail, including training and human resources costs, we need to know if there is a need for additional resources such as additional IT facilities in order to ensure that no sensitive key...

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