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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Apologies have been received from Senators Murphy and Gavan and Deputy Paul Donnelly. Members participating remotely are required to do so from within the Leinster House precinct only. I welcome the witnesses. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentations they make to the committee. This means that they have an absolute defence against any defamation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I thank Dr. Whelan and invite Dr. Boland to make his opening remarks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I thank Dr. Boland and call on Dr. Ray Griffin to make his opening statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I thank Dr. Griffin. I thank all four of the witnesses for their opening statements, which were very interesting. Taking into account our own perspective and the evidence we generally hear in relation to these issues, our guests have provided us with a different perspective on many of the challenges. Deputy Ó Cathasaigh is first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I actually agree with you. Deputy Ó Cuív will probably also agree that it is a very apt metaphor. We all hope that it does not fall over-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I ask the witnesses when responding not to repeat something someone else has said, unless they want to disagree with it. This will make it easier for us to move through the discussion. I will ask Dr. Dukelow to go first because a specific question was directed to her. Dr. Griffin, Dr. Whelan and Dr. Boland can contribute after that because a broader question was also asked.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: That is why we have invited in the witnesses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Who wants to take that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Does Dr. Boland want to comment on that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Particularly in an economy where we have full employment, we need to be conscious of that. The current social welfare system, as it is presently structured, is taking people out of the workforce whom we need, such as the cases Deputy Ó Cuív has spoken about. At the other end of the spectrum - this is part of the work that is being done in the north east of the country with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: We have exposed that academics are not experts in sheep farming.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I call Dr. Whelan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: No. Nowadays it is the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Does Deputy Ó Laoghaire have anything else to say?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Can I ask a couple of questions? As soon as the Minister sits down in the House, I will have to go, so I might have to look at the Official Report later for the responses. First, Dr. Griffin mentioned this debate between right and left. As we know there is a toxic atmosphere beginning to emerge in this country, particularly on the extreme right. One of the points they would raise...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Since the members are happy, I thank all the witnesses for their evidence and engagement with the committee. We really appreciate it. As I said before I had to rush out, we are examining the public service performance report with the Department in respect of the Estimates. With regard to facilitating research based on Irish evidence and data, we would be very happy to hear thoughts and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on the Social Welfare System: Discussion (24 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I do not know which of the academics is an expert on sheep farming but it raises a broader point, which I raised here last week. I gave an example of a sheep farmer who came in to me, and we were doing the means test. They were knocked off a scheme wrongly because the Department of Social Protection inspector did not understand sheep farming. The difficulty is that more people are moving...

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate: Flood Relief Schemes (23 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: We are talking about a depth of water 3.38 m higher than the historical level of that lough for generations. That would flood the whole of this Chamber. That is the height we are talking about here. I was at an EPA climate lecture earlier this evening on the issue of climate and health. It was given by Professor Lea Berrang-Ford. She said the greatest impact of flooding on health relates...

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate: Flood Relief Schemes (23 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: The Leas-Cheann Comhairle should be more generous with us from the west.

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate: Flood Relief Schemes (23 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: After we recovering after a Connacht semi-final on Sunday, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle should take it easy on us. I wish to share my time with Deputies Kerrane and Fitzmaurice. As the Minister of State will be aware, the rising water levels on Lough Funshinagh have resulted in the evacuation of two families within the past fortnight, with another home sandbagged last week. Without...

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