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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: We will sort it out on Report Stage. There are a couple of good amendments there.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I cannot agree to that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: So do I.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: There is nothing ambivalent.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: So we will amend the amendment on Report Stage rather than coming in with a clean amendment?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: We will fight the Minister on Report Stage if we are not happy.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 17: In page 17, to delete lines 29 to 34.Section 18 applies to a disclosure of information if it might reasonably be expected to affect adversely the security, defence international relations and intelligence of the State. These disclosures are not protected. I am not arguing the point if it adversely affects the security or defence of the State. However, in regard to...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I only have a copy of the relevant sections here.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I am pleased the Minister has agreed to look at the wording of the provision. Even if he made an exception and it came with one definitive prescribed body, it would be in the country's interests.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: So be it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I think it would make a mark. I am not going back over the history, but I know the Minister said there was a concern about drafting amendments based on the latest media story. My amendments have been there for about two months. They were tabled immediately after Second Stage, long before the recent episodes. They have been there for so long that I had to double-check whether I had even...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I might give the Minister a pass on this one because he is not the Minister for Justice and Equality. We are amending the Garda Síochána Act and it is only right that Parliament have in front of it officials who can answer everything relevant. I do not know whether officials from the Department of Justice and Equality are here. I accept the principle of the Minister's response...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I am happy with that. The Minister can see that I was very keen that there be some amendment on this issue. My questions are technical in nature and relate to the amendment rather than the broad sweep of the legislation. The Minister is amending section 91 of the Garda Síochána Act. What does this section talk about? I know the Minister might not have the answer here, but if we...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: We are not amending section 91 but we are referring to it. Is that what the Minister is saying?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: It is important that we on this side of the House understand what that means if we are being asked to pass the legislation. We are referring to section 91 in this amendment but we are not amending the section. It is important that we know what the amendment refers to. I will proceed with section 91. It states that if a complaint concerns the death of or serious harm to a person as a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: So it applies in very serious cases. It is not set out that there shall be an absolute-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: One might have trivial stuff.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: There could be trivial stuff. What is interesting is that section 91 refers to the death of a person in Garda custody. The Minister just said that some of us might not be happy with these amendments because they would prevent people from coming to us. I am speaking for myself. I have heard about different issues from other Members. Since all these issues arose concerning the file...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I am not mentioning any names. I considered it carefully and passed it directly to the Taoiseach because he seemed to be the man taking charge of these issues. He bypassed the Department of Justice and Equality as far back as then, even though he only did it formally last week. I received an acknowledgement. The family wanted to make a complaint about the death of the family member in...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Protected Disclosures Bill 2013: Committee Stage (14 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I have sent details of the complaint to the Taoiseach. Due to the fact that the Minister is willing to look at the wording of amendment No. 19, I have specific questions which I will pass on for now.

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