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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: I seek clarification as the insertion of new Schedules can lead to confusion. Amendment No. 54 appears to add to the definitions provided on page 9 and listing public service bodies. Deputy McDonald and I have proposed amendments to this section, which refers to the definition of a "public service body" in another Act. Amendment No. 54 proposes to delete the relevant paragraph and replace...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: The new definition reads as follows: "public service body" means—(a) a Department of State, (b) the Garda Síochána, (c) the Permanent Defence Force, (d) a local authority within the meaning of the Local Government Act 2001, (e) the National Treasury Management Agency, (f) the National Asset Management Agency, (g) the National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission, (h) the National...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: I do not understand the point.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: Does this mean that all the bodies listed, which include Departments of State, the Garda Síochána and the Permanent Defence Force, will not be exempted?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: Will the Minister explain the difference between the list in amendment No. 54 and the list in the proposed new Schedule? What is the purpose of having two different lists? Amendment No. 54 lists bodies such as the Central Fund. What is the purpose of this list? What is the purpose of the list in the proposed new Schedule? They appear to be polar opposites.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: We are dealing with page 9.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: They are exempt.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: The issue is complicated but we are making progress. The first half is clear.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: They are exempt from the exclusion because they are now deemed to be public service bodies. However, according to the heading of the Schedule to be inserted in the later amendment the bodies listed are bodies that are not public service bodies. Does the Minister have a note explaining the purpose of the Schedule? It appears to move in the opposite direction.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: We are making a start. I accept that. In future, many such people will have to register under SIPO or other regulations. They are well used to this kind of thing and there is nothing new in it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: The Minister might explain that. What will it mean for newly elected members? Will they have to register with SIPO? Can the Minister give us a note for us to give them? Deputy Brendan Howlin:We need a learning curve for these people. That is why we will prepare a briefing note for every local authority in advance of the commencement of the Bill.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: That is very good. On that basis-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: Of course it will. On that basis, I can withdraw amendments Nos. 43 and 46.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: -----to register the fact the he or she had been so lobbied and the public official shall provide the necessary information to SIPO for inclusion in the register and for the provision and maintenance of a category of information shall be kept by the commission as it considers appropriate because they do not know what other body to lodge that. Some of the Minister's ministerial colleagues,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: For bodies outside the State.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: One is being polite.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 43: In page 8, between lines 38 and 39, to insert the following:"(f) Secretaries General and Assistant Secretaries General;".This is the first stab at legislation on the registration of lobbyists, and the Minister said he wanted to launch the canoe before we tried to sink it. The definition of "designated public officials" listed in the legislation is very narrow. It...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: That is good. I have also listed private secretaries, chief executive officers of local authorities and directors of services of local authorities. I will be very happy if they are included. That is the essence of my group of amendments.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: Are Secretaries General and Assistant Secretaries included now?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Seán Fleming: But they are not included now.

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