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Seanad: Order of Business (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: It is a pity the Minister, Deputy Reilly, sees it fit to make these announcements to the media rather than to the elected Members of the Oireachtas. In fairness, the Minister has come to this House to deal with agreed legislation but I would like him to discuss, in the House rather than in the media, cuts in hospital services in Sligo General Hospital and others I mentioned. Every time we...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: That sounds like Soviet republics which take people's savings as well.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: I was in school then.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Finally-----

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: We have and, in fairness, I do not want to delay the debate any further. The Minister of State made the point as to why the Government should accept these recommendations. He said the pensions should find a way to absorb this fee. If so, why in God's name let them off the hook by stating in the Bill that the Minister can adjust benefits within an existing scheme for people who are due to...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: I am glad to hear that because we might be able to find a way of dealing with this matter. As the Minister of State said, under current legislation the Revenue Commissioners are entitled to review any approved pension schemes, which is fine. They can write to any administrator and say they want to review any schemes, as can the Pensions Board. What therefore will the Revenue Commissioners...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: That is useful information, but I must pose a question on the basis of the Minister of State's briefing note. Is he saying that no one member in the scheme can pay more than 0.6% or the equivalent reduction in their entitlements? This is an important point because if that is to be the case, I want clarification on it.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: That person individually?

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Not all of them.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: I was glad of the Minister of State's clarification on the maximum charge being 0.6% of the assets of a fund. I want to put to bed this idea that in all instances this 0.6% is a small charge and a small imposition. Is it correct that based on the 0.6% charge on an average pension fund of someone who has been contributing to a fund for 30 years plus, he or she could be looking at up to a 9%...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Some 1.5% over 10 years.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: A reduction in their pension benefit.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: I am not saying that.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Same as ARFs, which are exempt.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Recommendation No. 9 seeks to ensure that benefits agreed in respect of current schemes will not be reduced by a scheme's trustees in order, effectively, to pay the levy. As stated on Second Stage, an average sized company might have a scheme which has been in operation for 20 to 30 years and this might incorporate a mix of retired members - with their retained benefits - and members who are...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: The overall point I make is that someone who has been a member of a scheme for a long period will obviously pay more. We have already discussed my views on the levy and the inequality relating to it. The Minister of State must recognise that the larger the scheme, the greater will be the charge upon it. In the context of the levy, we are discussing work schemes which, in the main, are...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: That is not true.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: The biggest change in pensions legislation was introduced by the previous Government. That is not true at all.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Senator Jimmy Harte referred to investment managers and the cost of managing pension funds. Deputy Shane Ross suggested pension fund managers should carry the cost. I would love them to do so if it were feasible. The average cost of managed pension funds, the funds associated with workers' schemes, is 0.75% per annum, as any of the Minister of State's officials would tell him. More...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 (Certified Money Bill): Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Jun 2011)

Darragh O'Brien: Specifically on the recommendation, I thank the Minister of State for clarifying his position. It is interesting to note, and I take the Minister of State at his word, that the pensions industry has not responded to correspondence from the Minister for Finance at a point when the Bill is before this House and will be dealt with this week. This is an indictment of the industry that I find...

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