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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: It was a temporary bridging loan from Bank of Ireland.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I have said that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: When was the special liquidator, Mr. Kieran Wallace of KPMG, brought into the discussion to be on standby?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Were fees discussed? I think it got €70 million so far.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I accept that and I agree with it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The Department went to the big companies. That is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: From October 2012, it could have happened on any day in Dáil Éireann.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I apologise to any viewers for this technical discussion. Some people are lost. However, it is useful to put it on the public record that the liquidation issue was probably planned, discussed and thought out, and I have confidence in the process the Department followed. I have less confidence in what happened last month. I will let others in but will want to come back to talk about other...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Are we dealing with normal Department of Finance matters today? I have a few questions apart from the ones dealing with Siteserv.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: In respect of Siteserv, up to when did IBRC continue to be regulated by the Central Bank?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: That was in March 2013.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Other than banking.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Through all of this period, before the special liquidator came in, IBRC was a bank regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland, and the Department was the main shareholder.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: During this period, what discussions took place with the regulator? All the previous problems arose out of a lack of regulation. What regulation was the Central Bank doing for IBRC during this period?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The Minister has made it clear he has met the Central Bank on various issues in recent weeks. Has this matter been discussed between the Department as shareholder and the Central Bank as regulator? These issues are in the public arena now. What discussions have taken place with the Central Bank about possible regulatory issues? Obviously the Department’s officials had some issues.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: On that exact issue, I would interpret the situation slightly differently. Ms Nolan said the issues that arose were not regulatory issues, but the memo on the screen says the performance of management in executing these transactions raised the question of the effectiveness of the chief executive officer, CEO. A fundamental part of regulation by the Central Bank is to have confidence in the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: What contact has there been between the Department and the regulator with regard to any issues the Department had with the bank that the regulator was supposed to regulate? We need to contact the regulator, because everybody is talking about the shareholder and Siteserv and the special liquidator. We are so used to not having a good regulator in place that there is a missing piece of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: It would be very remiss of this committee, given that we are talking about a regulated bank and issues relating to it, not to take it up with the regulator in some way. That is all I have to say on Siteserv. If we have a few minutes, I would like to deal with the other business.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I will try and be as concise as possible. These are the notes I prepared last night for my questions before we went down a different road. I have brief questions on a number of specifics concerning the documents the officials gave us. In the finance accounts for 2013, on page 26, the Aer Lingus group was valued at €214 million. What value does the Department have for Aer Lingus today?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I will not get into the merits or demerits----

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