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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: With respect, that was not the question. I am interrupting because that was not the question. Professor Mey is answering a different question. The governing authority initiated an inquiry because it had concerns. My question was whether the governing authority or the university believes it paid in excess of the market value.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: How can the University of Limerick say it had no concerns around the value of the site when no proper valuation process took place?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I am asking the university whether it believes it paid in excess of market value.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Professor Mey replied by saying it was value for money. That is a separate issue. Does she believe the university paid in excess of market value?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I am being very clear. Does the university believe it paid in excess of market value? It is a simple question.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The university did not pay to buy a paper. I know why it paid. It is simple. Does the university believe it paid in excess of market value? Yes or no.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I will put it this way. Does the university believe it paid market value?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Did the university pay above market value for the site?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Surely it is a legitimate question for the Committee of Public Accounts to ask the university. Did it pay the market value or in excess of the market value and have a reason to do so? The university may have had a reason to pay in excess of market value. My question is whether the university believes it paid the correct market value. Part of the problem in answering is that at the time...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: In this hearing I am trying to quantify that decision. What did the decision cost?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Ms Fogarty is talking about valuations after the date. It is a simple question. Does the university believe it paid market value or in excess of it? If it believes it paid in excess, was there a reason for that? The reason I am asking that question is that it is the heart of the issue. A decision was made to purchase a site at a particular value. It is clear and has been fully accepted...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The only iconic thing about this is the breathtaking lack of ability to name the cost of the mistake. It is a simple question. How much did it cost? We accept a mistake was made. We have difficulties around having full public accountability because of legal actions. I accept that. Unfortunately I will not have time to talk about that. There will be an opportunity in the future when the...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The witnesses are talking about value for money rather than the appropriate value of a transaction. They are different things.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I was going to say that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The university discounts the €3 million valuation.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: What was the value of the site?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The university of Limerick cannot tell us the cost of the mistake or how much it overpaid or underpaid. That is the reality.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: We know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: It is breathtaking that at the end of the KPMG process, albeit with the other legal restrictions and so on, that the witnesses come before the Committee of Public Accounts and we are unable to quantify the mistake. If we cannot quantify it, we cannot improve the processes as we go forward.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: University of Limerick (18 May 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The absence of that process cost the State money and we cannot identify how much it cost.

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