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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: Can the witnesses provide this correspondence to the committee to support the various dates, times and responses so that we are absolutely clear?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: The committee secretariat will inform the members. This correspondence will form the basis of what we are going to do next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: Powerful senior civil servants were mentioned. The reason I took an interest in this matter and read into it is that the question of who is running this country often crosses my mind. This is a clear example of who is running the country. It is also an example of who is being kept in the dark. As long as the very senior civil servants keep the politicians in the dark, they can do what...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: They would have expected that the Civil Service would at least respect the fact that they were one of its own. The witnesses have had a Labour Court decision and support from various pieces of correspondence and yet payment is still withheld from them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: So, what Ms Cronin is saying is that they do not behave ethically. It is the reverse or opposite.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: I can give Mr. O'Brien plenty of examples of that. I will conclude by saying that the reason the witnesses are here is that it is absolutely outrageous that the Civil Service would behave in the way it has in this particular instance. It is an example of the very same arrogance that is applied in running the country and in the administration of various sections within Government and of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: If Governments, including this Government, had a backbone at all, they would turn around, support the Labour Court judgment and pay. I would love to hear the Government's explanation as to why senior civil servants were allowed to pay themselves while leaving outside the door one small cohort of people who, apart from deserving it, have been supported by the Labour Court in their claim. It...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: It is despicable that they would do this. With the permission of the committee, we will send the transcript of this meeting to the Secretaries General of the Departments involved in this matter and to the Ministers involved and explain to them that, if they have any shred of decency in them, they will recognise the injustice and pay Ms Cronin and her colleagues immediately. After that, we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: It reminds me of a line, I think it was by Mr. John Drennan, about having a backbone. He said that sometimes Government is like a shiver looking for a backbone. It does not even have one. I thank our guests for coming forward because this is not just about them-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Report 42 of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service: Discussion (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: It is about the administration of the country, justice and fair play. I thank all of our guests for being with us today. We will suspend for three minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: I welcome Mr. Niall Cody, Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, Ms Ruth Kennedy, commissioner, and Ms Angela O'Gorman, principal officer. We will start our meeting as usual with an opening statement from Mr. Cody and then members can engage with him on the content of that statement and possibly some other matters.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: Deputy Doherty is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: The Revenue Commissioners are responsible for customs as well. Recently a number of Deputies were approached by fuel distributors who deal with coal, gas, briquettes and so on. With the changes coming in with regard to how much of those reserves can be used in Ireland, how are the Revenue Commissioners capturing the cross-Border activity that is going on? It seems to be a growth area....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: I suggest that this is going on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: You can buy online now from a company that will deliver pallets of coal to your house.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: This is a timing issue as well. The busiest time of the year is now and into the first quarter of next year. That is their busy time when they make their money for the rest of the year. I have received a number of calls from retailers selling coal about wholesalers in the North coming down, door to door, in some cases with a link online to contact and order coal. On one hand, we cannot...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: The knock on from that is “And by the way, can you get me X in the North?”, and then other products are coming in. I understand the issue with the Border. However, I am concerned about the small businesses that are affected by bigger wholesalers coming in and giving prices that cannot be matched.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Engagement (14 Dec 2022)

John McGuinness: Revenue will trigger the engagement with the local authority on this matter. Certain actions will then be taken, presumably from there.

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