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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: I have a point of order, if I can make it very quickly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: I respect Senator Conway, but we need to be very careful we are not putting figures out there that are not real figures. We all have a responsibility here. A figure was put out there that is not coming from the board. It is not a real figure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: It is just because figures can be put out which can then be misrepresented as real. I am just making that point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gunning's opening statement was very hard-hitting and I do not think he should apologise for that because it is his job to make sure that the contractor does its job. He said its behaviour is unacceptable and he illustrated a number of examples, such as where there was only 65% progress and 35% compliance. I would imagine that relates to feet on the ground in terms of getting work done....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gunning did so in his opening statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: It is obvious from what Mr. Gunning is saying that one could use terms such as "go-slow", "slowing down the project", a "tactic" or a "strategy". From Mr. Gunning's perspective, it is certainly not providing the capacity that is needed to complete the job as quickly as it said it would. That is essentially what Mr. Gunning is saying.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Okay. There is frustration on everybody's part.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: I can hear the frustration coming through Mr. Gunning's opening statement, but I can tell him that the public is even more frustrated, because there are more costs and more time delays. Nobody can really have any confidence in any dates that we are being given at this point. On the one hand, there are all of these claims that now amount to €750 million. On the other hand, there is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: What I am saying is that Mr. Gunning has asked for more-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: I am not even going to waste my time asking for the figure-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gunning has told us why he cannot give us the figure, so I am asking if this means that the board is increasing what it sees as the contingency to deal with claims.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gunning says he is open to meeting with BAM, but what I am trying to figure out is there are all of these claims that can be dealt with in a number of different ways. One can use the processes, such as the employer representative process, conciliation or the High Court, which may sort some of this out, or parties can sit down and resolve this. I am asking if there will be an attempt for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: It has not been resolved.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Exactly. I am accept that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: I accept that 100%. We are only asking. We are here where we are right now today.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: How many of the claims have gone to conciliation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: How many were adjudicated on?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: No, when they go to conciliation, what happens? Does the conciliator say that they come down in favour of the board or that they come down in favour of the contractor?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Okay, so of those recommendations-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on New National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (12 Jul 2023)

David Cullinane: Okay.

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