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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: They were ordered in December 2008, which was two months after the bank guarantee was put in place.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is fine, and I accept that. In 2008, a system should have been put in place whereby Irish Rail could have looked at the 51 carriages and come up with an options system based on passenger numbers. Things were clearly slowing down across a range of areas. The Department should request Irish Rail to get a valuation of these carriages and of their disposal value.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That still has not been provided.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is Mr. O'Mahony aware of the figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: If a business orders stock way in excess of what is required, there is an old rule about working capital and running a business. When this order was made, the methodology and due diligence were soft and not rigorous enough. Ultimately, people living in Ireland - the taxpayer, the person in receipt of social welfare or whoever - are picking up the tab. It should not have happened. It is an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I accept that point, but even then, I hope this will never happen again. A strategic view must be taken of these carriages. Will they ever be put into use? If they will never be put into use, there will have to be a proper evaluation. I hope we will have a further rigorous evaluation. This is not personal, but it should not have happened. It is a waste of taxpayers' money. I believe in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: How much has been paid in 2010, 2011 and 2012?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I want a breakdown.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: So, roughly, we are talking about €15 million overall, and for the past two years, of the order of €7 million to €8 million in total each year. What are the projections for both of those? I note there is a PPP in place for the Limerick tunnel up to 2041 and for Clonee up to 2025. It is 28 years in the case of the Limerick tunnel and 12 years in the case of Clonee....

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The NRA would have done forecasts on traffic volumes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is that 2.5% growth per annum?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Based on 2.5% growth per annum, how much will the NRA end up putting in per annum?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did the witness request information about the possible value of the carriages in terms of resale? I refer to the original contract. Did any negotiations take place whereby contingencies were built in that if the volumes were not available, there would be perhaps reservation and title maintained over the carriages by the vendor? At that time, in December 2008, the Celtic tiger economy was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Were these carriages all acquired at once or were they acquired over time? Why do we have a situation where there is obviously not the capacity to use the 21 carriages? Planning was probably done for that in 2006 and 2007, which was the height of the Celtic tiger economy. However, it was running on hot stem at that time and at a speed that was not natural. Why was it not done on a phased...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: With regard to the 51 in 2008, at that point in time could a decision have been made by Irish Rail not to purchase them?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Effectively, 51 divided by 21 means that over 40% of the carriages of that particular order were bought when the Celtic tiger economy was running down at a rapid rate. The 234 carriages date back to the 2004 order. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That was in 2004. My point is that between 2004 and 2008 circumstances changed. Clearly, at that point in time there was a trigger mechanism whereby it got the 120, 30 and the 33. When it came to 2008, could it have varied the order for the 51 and opted for 30 carriages?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Explain why that did not happen.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It would still have been €20 million plus.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Mr. O'Mahony is an experienced official. With due respect, this is about cash flow and managing scarce taxpayers' resources. What year were the 120 ordered?

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