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Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: My recollection of the Minister's speech in the Dáil was that the statutory instrument as it is currently constituted does not reflect a fair penalty points system and there needed to be further consultation with the industry to try to come together. As he will be aware, there was a letter from the industry. When there was this hiatus between ministerial appointments and the Taoiseach...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I will tell the Minister what the commitment is. It is what is in these amendments. These amendments are the position of my party.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: That is the commitment. Here is the thing. Given the speech the Minister gave during that statutory instrument annulment debate, people can see his position then and his position now. This is our position. We will be tested in government at some stage, hopefully, the sooner, the better, and certainly for the fishing community. We will be tested on where we stand based on these...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I am saying to the Minister that this current penalty points system that the Minister is proposing to bring in is profoundly unfair. We would seek to have one that reflects the concerns of the industry, particularly on the issue of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: It is very clear.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I just want to respond to the points the Minister made.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: That is fair enough. I will make way.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I thank the Minister for a comprehensive response in an earlier exchange, although the question on the European comparison was missed. Can the Minister tell me what other countries have implemented this legislation to back up the penalty point system? What other country has used the words "beyond a reasonable doubt" in their legislation? Is there any other example in Europe where they have...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: For example, we talk about common law. The UK has a common law system similar to our own. The Minister will appreciate that I am not trying to be a smart alec here and I know he cannot have every possible answer at his disposal. However, his colleague might want to avail of the opportunity to speak. The UK has a common law system. Has the UK introduced a penalty point system?

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: The official is not an invited guest. Okay, that is fair enough. If the answer is not available today maybe it can be sent on.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: That is fair enough and I appreciate that. Perhaps, if we cannot get the answer today, it could be sent on to committee members. To be clear, I am asking about Britain and the Common Fisheries Policy, before they left the European Union. Did the system they have in place refer to the balance of probabilities? They have a similar legal system to Ireland so I make a comparison. I want to...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: That is not what I asked. I said before they left the EU.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I am conscious that we are talking here about legislation that could potentially take away the livelihood of people. That is a pretty severe sanction. Obviously, it would impact on their reputation if they were issued with penalty points. There are all sorts of implications here. It is quite a big deal. I ask again, if this information can be given to the Minister, for him to articulate...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I have not got an answer and it is a reasonable question to ask.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I will just submit a parliamentary question. That is fair.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I move amendment No. 17: In page 18, lines 35 and 36, to delete “on a point of law”.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I have just read back over the comments made by the Minister before he took up the post of Minister. At that time he was very critical of the Department and the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, SFPA. The big issue for him then was the balance of probability. The current approach in the statutory instrument deals with the balance of probability rather than having to prove beyond doubt,...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: The concern here is that the person issued with a notice will be able to receive it. The relevant section in the Bill specifies several ways in which people can be notified. Can the Minister assure us that what he is proposing would not disadvantage or cause difficulties to people? I ask him to clarify that aspect.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I do not see a difference.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2021)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I agree that the amendment should be accommodated. As I said earlier, this Bill cannot be taken in isolation. The reaction of fishing communities to this Bill reflects their anger at the long-standing culture of not helping them to build their industry but of holding them back. The approach that is taken in this legislation and by the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, SFPA, reflects a...

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