Results 21,681-21,700 of 34,780 for speaker:Seán Fleming
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: That threw us all along, which is why we asked about those two meetings. They do not fully tally with each other. I get the distinction Mr. Daly is now putting on completeness and accuracy. Finally on the board minutes-----
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Daly to say it slowly - between something being agreed and something being decided.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Even though they are the official records and we cannot undo those, is Mr. Daly saying that where the board meeting of 8 January 2014 refers to the fact that the £1.3 billion sale price was agreed at the 12 December meeting, that is not an exact, accurate position?
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: So it is an agreement, but Mr. Daly has added another layer of confusion.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly is insistent that the minutes are the accurate record. However, taking the minutes precisely as written and when they are tested, there is a bit of an issue there. We will need to consider that. We are now talking about the accuracy and completeness of the board minutes. Have NAMA's minutes ever been tested in court or been part of any litigation between NAMA and anybody else?
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: What was the decision in regard to the outcome of the completeness and accuracy of the NAMA board minutes when they were tested in court?
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Daly to spell out what he is saying.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: They have been referred to in earlier court cases.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: The accuracy and completeness was an issue in earlier court cases.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: There might not have been a specific finding, but it might have been said in the course of evidence. It might have been agreed without a finding that it did not fully reflect how a decision was arrived at. Am I right in interpreting Mr. Daly as saying that one of the reasons these notes are not retained is because they might be discoverable? They are destroyed so that they cannot be discovered.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Or different records of discussions.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly is saying the retention of these records could put any public body or any other body at risk.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Nobody disputes the signed minute but the other records could possibly be used by another side to explain or justify why something was considered or not considered sufficiently when a decision was being arrived at.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Nobody disputes the official minutes. NAMA came within the scope of the Freedom of Information Act some time ago. What obligations does this place on it to retain records? To put it simply, Deputies would be alarmed if, when dealing with a Department, for example, the Department of Health or the Department of Social Protection, they were told that the notes on how the Department arrived...
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: The final point takes us back to the reason we started with this query. Mr. Daly is saying that everything of substance was recorded but he made a big issue of the 10% being a major part of the board's discussions and how the board arrived at that figure. If he is saying that everything of substance was recorded and there is no reference to the 10% in the recorded minutes, it leads me to...
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: It was not recorded.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I do not want to put words in Mr. Daly's mouth but no evidence has been produced as to how the €1.3 billion figure was arrived at as the reserve price. We do not have any documentation on that. Does Mr. Daly agree that, in hindsight, it would have been better if that the 10% figure in reference to the €1.3 billion had been included in the board minutes because it would have...
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I am being very clear that I am referring to documentary evidence.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly has given oral evidence, which we accept in good faith. However, our lives would have been much easier if we had documentary evidence. Mr. Daly referred to 2,000 questions and I have the same number of answers. I do not, however, have documentary evidence of the board considering the 10% figure.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: On that note, we will conclude. The issues of contemporaneous notes at board meetings and policies on retaining records are broader than just Project Eagle issues and broader also than NAMA issues. The issue is a public service issue and a public bodies issue but it came to light as part of our discussions. From that point of view, this discussion has been useful. I thank Mr. Daly and Mr....