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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: Unused.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: It could have been on the Defence Forces' shelves for eight or ten years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Quinn is calling them "new" because they were not used, but they could have been several years old. One could not just put them on an aircraft without testing them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: A lot of this was old stock that had never been used and was sitting there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: If the number of hours goes up, the cost per hour goes down.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: So for 2015, give us the range depending on the hours travelled. Give us the actual outturn for 2015 or 2016, as the case may be, but also provide us with the range, that is, had it flown an additional 500 hours, what the average cost would have been in that case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: How many trips was that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: And the average hourly rate as well.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is fair enough.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: In truth our job is to look at both sides of any costs. I want to pose some questions, if Mr. Quinn will bear with me. I have a few topics for the Department. The Comptroller and Auditor General's report says that on 15 August 2014, the Minister directed that no further work should be carried out on the aircraft, and that it should be disposed of for the best possible price. Mr. Quinn is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: Was a detailed note presented to the Minister?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is that note subject to Cabinet confidentiality?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: Would Mr. Quinn check it out? If it is not, it would be good to circulate it here to see Mr. Quinn's rationale as to why he arrived at that decision. I refer to chapter 8, paragraphs 12 and 13, which trouble me a little bit. Mr. Quinn spoke about having spare equipment in stock for all contingencies and how it is the job of the Army to always be vigilant, plan ahead and plan for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: In any terms.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am not narrowing your options. Do you have a plan in place if something happened to the Learjet tomorrow and it was permanently or temporarily out of commission? Surely you have a contingency.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: You have prepared something.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is not what I asked. Let us say it is parked on a runway in any airport tomorrow and some other vehicle hits it, causing damage, and it is out of commission for a day, a week, a month or six months. What is in place today to deal with that eventuality? Surely the Department has some options as things can happen. There was a problem with the first jet and there was no contingency...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am not asking you to have a procurement plan in place. Obviously you can lease aircraft, as has been mentioned here, for a day, a month, three months or six months. Surely somewhere on your desk you have what could be done if you were told the jet was hit by something it in London or wherever and that it was going to be out of action for six months. It is the job of the Defence Forces to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is a one off to get the person home, but let us say it is out of service for three months, six months or indeterminately. If there is an accident or if something hits it, the Secretary General is telling me we are here today again without a plan. I can understand it happening to the jet once, but the Secretary General is saying the Department is equally unprepared if it were to happen...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Seán Fleming: When did that committee last meet?

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