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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Donnellan will understand why I am asking my next question, coming as I do from Portlaoise. Is he aware of proposals by some quarters in the HSE to reduce the accident and emergency hours in Portlaoise hospital? Has the Prison Service discussed the implications of that with the HSE in terms of any incidents that might happen in the prison out-of-hours?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Donnellan to respond specifically on that issue. I do not believe there is a proposal to reduce the accident and emergency hours at the Mater Hospital or in Tallaght but it has been mentioned by the HSE with regard to Portlaoise. Has the Prison Service been in contact with the HSE about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is fine. I understand it is not a decision that Mr. Donnellan can make. On the same topic, if changes were made to the opening times, would the Prison Service have to put new arrangements in place to go to some other hospital, be it the Midland Regional Hospital at Tullamore, Tallaght hospital or some other hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: The prisoner could be taken to St. James's Hospital or-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am happy that the Prison Service has passed on the data and statistics to the HSE but did it also make the point that there is an additional risk involved in having to transport prisoners to a hospital that is further away?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: That point has been made to the HSE. Fine, that is good. I have one question which has not been posed by anyone else. Were there any break-outs during the year in question? Did any prisoners escape? I know that some people might not have come back after Christmas but-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: They cannot come back to serve their sentence?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: I did not mean to get into any specific detail there. I have two final observations to make. We were supplied with a briefing note on the outturn for salaries, wages and allowances in 2014, which was €236 million, including a Supplementary Estimate of €5 million. The outturn in 2015 was €235 million. I see that the estimated outturn for 2016 is €230 million....

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: So the staff numbers went down in 2016.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: Are they still down?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: The service has started recruiting again, which is good. Finally, Mr. Donnellan mentioned step-down facilities and probation. I ask him to elaborate on that further. He also said that some people are not being released because the Prison Service would be releasing them into homelessness. We all know about people in homeless hostels and it is sad to think that some people are still in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: I ask the witnesses to talk to us about that. It is a big social issue. I am sure the two Deputies here would agree. We can talk about recidivism, community service and so forth but there is not much point in releasing people if they end up back to square one.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: I would consider this a most important and new debate in the context of the Prison Service. Mr. Donnellan spoke about the Probation Service. How advanced is that? I ask the witnesses to provide a detailed note on it. Mr. Donnellan also mentioned step-down facilities. Such facilities are essential. Some communities might not want to hear this, but step-down services are fundamental-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: Are there any physical facilities-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: How many spaces have been provided for men?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: The prisoner population in the Dóchas Centre is approximately 100, which means that the overall prison population is about 97% male. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is 96% or 97%. I ask Mr. Donnellan to give us those figures again.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who funds the PACE organisation? Is it the Prison Service?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: You are the Secretary General, Mr. Waters. Will you get us a note on the PACE programme, since it relates more to the Probation Service?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 – Prisons
Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts Special Report No. 93: Annualised Hours of the Prison Service
(2 Feb 2017)

Seán Fleming: How does the prison system know about accommodation? Do prisoners tell officers that they do not want to leave or they have nowhere to go? Is there a systematic check to determine whether they have a health card, whether they have applied for supplementary welfare allowance and so on? What happens?

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