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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I would regard that as a related party transaction for CRC. Was it noted in the accounts that an additional amount of €268,000 was put into the pension scheme for Mr. Kiely? Was it noted in the accounts that he was about to be paid a pay-off of €742,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: A meeting was held in February 2013 agreeing a pay package. The accounts were signed off in May 2013 and then, by coincidence, these payments of €742,000 were all paid in June 2013. Is that correct? They were all paid after the accounts were signed off. There are a lot of coincidences, a lot of timing and dates after things have been signed off. People were still applying for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: No inkling at all?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: There were no side discussions in the board room, no meetings at the margins?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What has happened in CRC and what we have seen in this letter this morning is an affront to the decent people throughout the country who collected the money. They did not collect money to feather the nest of one individual. They collected it to provide front-line services. I ask the Chairman to ask Mr. Kiely to appear before this committee as a matter of urgency. He owes us that and he...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I have two points, one, the Friends and Supporters of the CRC is a company within the CRC group, that collects money up and down the country, through pools, and ordinary people who collect for the CRC. It looks as if it was being used as a slush fund by top management within the CRC. A slush fund. It is an affront to the people up and down the country who collect this money. It is half of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: On what dates were the €450,000 and the €250,000 transferred from the Friends and Supporters of the CRC to the CRC main company?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: On what date?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Roughly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: June 2013?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Mr. Conlan came in as CEO of an organisation which is bringing in approximately €1.4 million or €1.5 million in donations from ordinary people - who collect to provide services for ordinary people, not to be giving a divvy-up of the order of €700,000 to Mr. Kiely. Is he telling me it is credible that when, as CEO, he looked into the accounts of the CRC he did not spot -...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: How does Mr. Conlan call them adjustments? A sum of €700,000 is not an adjustment. That is nearly three-quarters of a million euro, which is a crazy figure. I will ask personally that Mr. Kiely refund the money to the Friends and Supporters of the CRC. I will ask again: how often did Mr. Conlan do accounts? Were there monthly management accounts in the Friends and Supporters of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Surely as CEO Mr. Conlan looked to see how much money was there – of course the problem is that the Friends and Supporters always had a balance. What was the balance in the account when Mr. Conlan took over?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The board was here previously. I would have thought that money would have been put to better use for front-line users. This is a question of priorities. Obviously the €700,000 in the context of €40 million was only a small amount.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I know all about that. I am more interested in knowing whether Mr. Conlan thinks it credible that when, as CEO, he considered the Friends and Supporters of the CRC and saw two payments, one of €450,000, one of €250,000 going from Friends and Supporters of the CRC to the main CRC company, classified as a donation he did not know that it was not a donation. It was effectively...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What did Mr. Conlan think it was being used for?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: No. Does Mr. Conlan think it is credible that as CEO, when he read bank statements of the Friends and Supporters of the CRC he did not ask where the €450,000 and €250,000 went and what it was used for? Does he think it is credible that he would not ask that question as CEO?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What did Mr. Conlan understand his pension was?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: A sum of €200,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did Mr. Conlan ask where the €450,000 and €250,000 would have come in? Does the CRC have a financial controller?

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