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Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Typically, what would be the cost of a complex case in the private sector? Is the figure to which I alluded out of the ordinary?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Healy will understand that this includes an important group of people who have not come on to the committee's radar. While other committees are probably examining the issue, it is important that we have an understanding of the full picture. That is all I am suggesting in this regard. On the nursing home support scheme, the document provided refers at paragraph 4.3 to the...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: The HSE cannot pay the private provider for them.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Ms Noonan indicated the HSE is carrying out a review of the fair deal scheme. It is fine to talk about the assets but let us talk about the people in nursing homes who do not have incontinence wear covered. I am sure that is top of the list of the review. What is Ms Noonan's view on the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: As the witnesses will understand, I specifically linked the question to medical cards. All elderly people aged over 70 years are entitled to a medical card. My impression is that when people in private nursing homes seek some of these items or services, the operator will say they cost extra as they are not covered under the fair deal scheme. Do the witnesses get my point? These items are...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is that through nursing homes?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Healy knows which nursing home is the most expensive and it is Abbeyleix. Most nursing homes cost between €1,000 and €1,800 per week per resident, with a couple of them costing more than €2,000. In my home county, however, the facility in Abbeyleix costs €4,082 per patient per week and St. Brigid's nursing home, Shaen, €2,584. The witnesses are no...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Healy is confirming that it is the HSE's long-term intention to close the facility as a long-term care facility.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: He said it is short-stay and has two patients left in it. That has never been said before. The HSE pulled back from that in the High Court.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: It will provide respite and short-term care.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Essentially, Mr. Healy is saying the long-term future for Abbeyleix is not to provide long-term residential care.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Could Mr. Healy confirm that it will not be for long-term residential care?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: There are two left.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: For short-term care?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: I cannot get Mr. Healy to say it.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am trying to get a direct answer. There were more than 30 patients and the number is now down to two. I hope the two people there live a long time, given the great care that is provided. Mr. Healy has said there will be no more long-term nursing care beds.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is still not saying it. That is what creates public angst. It is black and white what Mr. Healy means to say. He has said it six times without saying it.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Okay, I think that is abundantly clear. One can understand why the question was asked.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is based on today's evaluation.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: The National Treatment Purchase Fund sets the price with the nursing homes individually. The HSE's sole duty is to write the cheque.

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