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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Yes, but once-off does not cut it. I am talking about permanent funding. The Department sought €2 billion and it got €700 million. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Okay, so there is a shortfall of €1.3 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Yes, but with respect, Mr. Watt, I do not have a lot of time and I just want to be accurate and clear. The Department sought a minimum of €2 billion, it got €700 million so there is a shortfall of €1.3 billion. That is in the base, in core expenditure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: There is a shortfall of €1.3 billion. That means that Mr. Gloster has to write a service plan for next year that guarantees a deficit for 2024. Would that be fair to say?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Would it be unusual for the HSE to be writing a service plan that builds in and guarantees a deficit?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: It would be unusual. I would say that it is highly unusual and unprecedented. I want to deal with the consequences of this. We are hearing that this will not impact patients on the front line but I disagree with that because no additional funding has been provided for new services or for all of the clinical programmes and national strategies. Mr. Gloster mentioned in his opening statement...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gloster said there is no new funding so-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: With respect, pre-existing does not cut it. I am talking about core additional expenditure in budget 2024 for any of these programmes. How much core additional expenditure has been provided in budget 2024 for the national stroke strategy, as an example? What is the round figure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Is it zero?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: I understand that. I am asking for a figure. Is it less than €1?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: It is zero, essentially.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: The HSE does not have a figure because the money was not given.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Exactly, so if the question can be answered, how much additional funding has been given for the national stroke strategy? The likely answer is zero for 2024, with respect to additional core expenditure. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: I would imagine that is the same across a lot of programmes, so budget 2024 will have an impact on the delivery of services and improving all those clinical programmes and national strategies. I wish to ask Mr. Watt about these 1,500 rapid-build beds we had a lengthy discussion on with the Minister. I raised it with Mr. Gloster and Mr. Watt a number of times. Additional capital might...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Watt see any of those beds being delivered?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Of the 1,500?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: Hope will not cut it, because the Minister was emphatic when he was here. To finish in the few seconds I have left, even the embargo and the fact there is a recruitment embargo on some front-line positions, though not all, sends out a very poor message at a time when we are trying to recruit into the health service. When those who work on the front-line, but especially those who are in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: I am not putting the blame on Mr. Gloster. I have put the blame firmly on the decision to underfund the health service for budget 2024.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: The Dáil taught me well, that is all I will say. I have learned a lot. I want to come back to the issue of additional beds for next year. When I was putting questions to Mr. Watt earlier, it was in the context of these 1,500 rapid-build beds that the Minister had more or less announced a number of times. We had a very lengthy discussion here in this committee room and he said that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Consideration and Implications of 2024 Health Services Funding: Discussion (24 Oct 2023)

David Cullinane: In the real world, and we all live in the real world, how likely is it that 700 of those beds will be delivered and opened in 2024?